[tkgally]

“Most Indians [= indigenous Americans] did not know how old they were. They measured time in days, moons, and winters, but they had no weeks, hours, or minutes. On the eve of an important event, when they were afraid they might oversleep in the morning—for example, when a war party discovered an enemy camp and wanted to make sure to wake up and attack it at first light—Indians would drink a lot of water before going to bed.” — Ian Frazier, Great Plains (1989), p. 48.

[devsda]

> but they had no weeks, hours, or minutes.

I don't think this is true.

We (Asian) Indians make a big deal out of beginning and doing important tasks at auspicious times. That wouldn't be possible without some means of measuring time of day even if its not perfect.

Edit: updated for clarity and leaving original comment as is.

[triceratops]

Indigenous Americans. Not East Indians.

[tkgally]

Thanks for clarifying that. Considering HN's worldwide readership, I should have anticipated that misunderstanding when I posted the quotation. I have now added "[= indigenous Americans]" above.

[devsda]

My bad. I too should have considered that the term "Indians" is ambiguous and should have looked up the reference book. Thought the title "Great Plains" was referring to plains including the Indo-Gangetic plain.

Is "East Indians" the commonly used name in the US for the people of India ? I've come across "Asian Indians".

[ta8903]

"Indian" is the commonly used term for the people from India as far as I know. You don't very often see that cohort referred to by some other term.

[tkgally]

Interesting question. My impression from afar (I live in Japan) is that “Asian Indians” and “East Indians” are both used but that just “Indians” is increasingly common, partly because of the growth in the number of people in the U.S. from India and partly because of the growing tendency in recent decades to avoid using “Indian” to refer to native Americans. Wikipedia has a long article on the latter issue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controver...

[qup]

I would have thought the war parties of the great plains would give it away.

[graemep]

I have often wondered why it is still acceptable to call Native Americans "Indians".

It is an extremely colonial term, but its used in the country that is the most sensitive about using such terminology. It originates in a marketing term to cover the failure of someone who was, among other things, a slave trader.

On top of that it is ambiguous and often causes confusion, as here, so its not even a useful term.

Surely its time to drop it?

[marcellus23]

The other comments make good points but also want to point out that that quote was written 37 years ago.

[basilikum]

If you are interested in the counter argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh88fVP2FWQ

[graemep]

It does not explain why the term "American Indian" (which it says the series will use) is preferable to "Native American" or "Indigenous American".

it does use a term ("first peoples") which avoids using American and is not used outside North America as far as I know.

[kgwxd]

Grouping people that way in general is barbaric anyway. There's no great answer. "Native American" is a colonial term too. What do they call themselves? It's up to them. Actually, it's up to the individual what they prefer. I don't like being labeled an "American".

[graemep]

> Actually, it's up to the individual what they prefer.

If referring to a group you cannot use a term that all individuals prefer as they will have different preferences. In general certain terms are not used - for example one for black people is never even written out in full by Americans. If one person said "I am fine with being called that" does not mean the rest of us should use it because most people find it offensive.

> I don't like being labeled an "American".

Being called an American Indian (which is necessary to avoid ambiguity) also means you are labeled an American.

"American" is also derived from the name of someone problematic (he even took part in a slaving raid) but that is another issues.

[al_borland]

I first learned this from Lisa Simpson.

https://youtu.be/pmRtY_vvW1U