[dolni]

> but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expensive

Where in the US do you find it's difficult for people to get an ID? Where is it not? What percentage of the population has an ID in a place where it's difficult to get one vs somewhere it is easier?

What constitutes an ID being expensive?

Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem? Do you think that their democratic processes might be compromised because of it?

[swiftcoder]

> Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem?

Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID, so everyone already has proof of citizenship. The US and UK are very much outliers in having vocal and successful resistance to the implementation of a national ID card.

[mothballed]

It's still bizarre though how this plays out in reality.

In some places like Illinois, an ID is required to exercise the rights of people but not the rights of citizens (FOID required to bear guns, but ID not required for vote).

In places like Arizona, it's the exact opposite. You can bear or conceal guns without an ID but you need an ID to vote.

Vermont is the only state I know of with any consistency on lack of ID requirements that convey non-ID citizens to also have the right of people. You can conceal guns and vote without ID.

[drstewart]

>Most of those nations have a mandatory national ID

And what are the fees for these IDs, something you conveniently are leaving out (hint: mostly not free)?

[swiftcoder]

> And what are the fees for these IDs, something you conveniently are leaving out (hint: mostly not free)?

Not far from free? It costs €12 to obtain a Spanish DNI, and the fee is waiver for low income, or folks with lots of kids

[sejje]

Perhaps those nations don't have laws against poll taxes; the US does.

[jjmarr]

Until 1986[1] most Americans didn't get a Social Security Number until their first job.

In The Matrix (1999) there's a scene where Agent Smith explicitly remarks that Neo has an SSN as proof he's a law-abiding citizen in a white-collar job.

[1] when it was made a requirement to claim tax deductions for dependent children. Even today, if you don't want the tax break, you can opt out at the cost of ruining your child's life!

[sejje]

I was born before that and issued my SSN at birth.

[jjmarr]

The first pilot project to issue SSNs with the birth certificate automatically was in 1987. You can read the history here:

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v56n1/v56n1p83.pdf

Prior to that, getting the SSN required giving your birth certificate to the government. If the family wasn't getting government benefits, many didn't bother.

[zinekeller]

> What percentage of the population has an ID in a place where it's difficult to get one vs somewhere it is easier?

Not the OP, but except for passports (and passport cards)... there isn't really any federal-level ID in the US (and passport booklets/cards are expensive, just a bit over $100 IIRC).

The nearest equivalent in the state level are driver's licenses, which are also on the expensive side considering the ancillary costs (because it's a driver's license, not just an identification card). This is also the reason why US-centric companies like PayPal, for this exact reason, accepts a driver's license as proof of identification (obviously where not otherwise prohibited by local laws).

Some (New York for example) do have an ID (called a non-DL ID, that's how embedded driver's license is in the US), but most states do not have a per se ID.

> What constitutes an ID being expensive?

Developing countries, rather ironically, issue their IDs for free? Okay, indirectly paid by taxes, but there's no upfront cost. The above-mentioned identity documents have a clear cost attached to them.

> How is the rest of the world dealing with this problem? Do you think that their democratic processes might be compromised because of it?

Cannot talk about other countries (because there is an ID system and it's not a controversial affair to them), but instead I'll answer with a reflection of the US system.

Unfortunately, American ID politics are hard, mainly due to concerns of surveillance, but I think (only my opinion) because some of them want those historically disenfranchised (even if a fully native-born US citizen) de facto disenfranchised. This means that there is no uniform and freely-issued identification system in the US (or even a requirement to do that at the state level). Unfortunately, this... is a tough nut to crack, politically-speaking.

[devilbunny]

> most states do not have a per se ID

I haven't researched this thoroughly, but what state will not issue an ID that is equivalent in every way to a driver's license except that it isn't a license to drive? I just checked Mississippi, Wyoming, South Dakota, and West Virginia, all of which do, so clearly being rural, poor, or both isn't enough to stop states from doing it. (The detailed politics are, as you say, a mess.)

[stvltvs]

Note that drivers licenses wouldn't count as proof of citizenship under the SAVE act.

[ricree]

>but most states do not have a per se ID

Out of curiosity, do you have a source or list for this? My own home state and those around me that I've spot checked all have a state ID available as an alternative to a driver's license. My understanding was that this is the case for most states.

Unless I've misunderstood you and you meant a state ID that is completely separate from a driver's license to the point that people with a DL would have one?

[stvltvs]

Proof of citizenship is not the same as the driver's licenses people are issued by their state.

Not everyone has ready access to proof of citizenship in order to register to vote. It gets even more difficult if your current legal name doesn't match your birth name, e.g. if you took your husband's name.

Not every eligible voter has or needs a government issued ID. For example, retired people who don't drive. For them to get to the DMV to get an ID just to vote would be a challenge.

The US has large rural areas where government offices are hours away.

All of this adds up to significant barriers to eligible voters. There's a reason even the GOP isn't bending over backward to pass the SAVE Act.

[orwin]

The person I used to stay with when I used to visit WV don't have a proof of citizenship. He doesn't know where his birth certificate is (probably with the US army if they kept track of their nurses giving birth on ex-allied territory during a war), and get by with is SSN and driver license.

How it works in my country : my electoral card is freely sent to my address when I register to my voting office. I can vote with it, or with an official ID, as long as I'm in the correct place. The only moment I need my ID is to cast a vote on behalf of someone who identified me as a 'surrogate'.

[beej71]

> What constitutes an ID being expensive?

If you're talking about this as a requirement for voting, then anything greater than $0 is too expensive since it smells like a poll tax.

[stetrain]

There are rural places in the US where it is an hour + drive to whatever the equivalent of the DMV office is, with no public transit. You can find similar places in cities where people may not have a car at all, with a long walk to find such an office that is only open during narrow hours.

People in or near poverty are going to be disproportionately affected by those conditions.

And just getting to the DMV does not necessarily mean you can get an ID that counts as proof of citizenship. There is no standard federal citizen ID in the US. A basic state ID or driver's license is not proof of citizenship. Even a RealID compliant ID is not a direct proof of citizenship, so depending on how strict the voting requirements are it may not be adequate.

[mulmen]

> Where in the US do you find it's difficult for people to get an ID?

Minority and poor areas.

> Where is it not?

White and affluent areas.

This isn’t hypothetical. Voter suppression is as American as apple pie.