[throwaway346434]

Oh nonsense.

Reverse the argument, does it make any sense?

"Every time a (whaling ship crew, police force, oil executive, etc) gets angry at protestors and sprays them with (water cannons, rubber bullets, lawsuits), they are more likely to join them!"

[vasco]

Unfortunately you're so far from the point that I don't think it's worth explaining. But the wisdom I shared is not mine, it exists for thousands of years. People have known for a long time it's useless to spend too long worrying about things you can't change, and that they should focus on those they can. And that bitterness is not going to help you. Those are the only assertions I'm making.

If you want to live bitter about how broken the world is instead of focusing on improving the things you actually can change that's up to you.

[camillomiller]

Stoicism must be the most misconstrued and misunderstood philosophical framework ever. It's just so good for the people in power, and Silicon Valley seems to have eaten it up perfectly and spit out a version of it that is quintessentially functional to convince people that questioning power is useless.

[vasco]

That is not what I said. You seem to assume people have no ability to change anything. I said people should focus on the things they can change.

> Disagree. You can still get fucking angry at how they’re capable of fooling others because of the skewed incentives we built in our capitalistic society

This is what I replied to. You cannot change that other people want to fool others. You can decide to fool others though. You can decide how you operate under a system you disagree with, and your contribution will help change it, to larger or smaller degrees. Being actually internally angry about "capitalism" day to day is completely useless though. Go be the economic agent you think more people should be. Work for someone with morals instead of maximize salary. Move to a country more similar to your values, so many things can be done than "be angry at capitalism".

I also don't see why being bitter and angry is a synonym to "questioning power" to you. You can think about things you disagree without getting angry presumably.

[camillomiller]

Funnily enough I totally agree with you in principle. Though I believe we are witnessing a constant erosion of these alternatives constantly and organically at the hand of the owner class. What you say assumes that the solutions you are mentioning are still viable. Let’s say I agree and decide to join USaid to do good. Elon fucking Musk comes in, guts it, indirectly causes thousands to lose help and die. My answer to this according to this frame should be “oh well, he would have done it anyway, can’t change that. Won’t help me being angry at the massive twat, so I’ll just jog on then”?

[vasco]

If you're a random worker of a huge organization and it gets bought or co-opted, yes you should jog on. Go help someone else that hasn't been co-opted.

This is why even though I'm generally a progressive I'm against unions. The solution to bad owners is everyone quitting their company. This was not feasible in a town with a single factory but is very feasible today. Quit working for bad people and bad people will change or become powerless. Prolong the ability for them to keep workers and they will keep being exactly as they are.

[camillomiller]

Have you ever had to pay rent or feed children?