[mindslight]

So your definition is based on it being incorrect to call anything else besides Mussolini's Italy or Hitler's Germany fascist? That's not particularly germane to discussion or analysis, which is why I was asking for other general definitions.

[mindslight]

@ratrace [dead]:

"My side" is my side because I perceive this movement as fascist, or at least close enough to oppose it on that grounds.

I was much happier both sidesing when digital authoritarianism was centered around theoretically-voluntary digital services, and both the red and blue political teams were pushing bureaucratic authoritarianism.

In my estimation, the red team has switched to autocratic authoritarianism, taken control of the digital authoritarian systems of surveillance and control, while engaging in populist rallying with most of the standard tropes of fascists.

As I said, I am open to examining whether it makes sense to apply the term fascist or not. But to do that we need a definition that lays out the general characteristics of fascism, at least as you see it. So far neither of you have supplied one.

[frm88]

"Exalts the Nation and Often Race Above the Individual Donald Trump claims immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our nation,” a turn of phrase used by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf...

Associated with a Centralized Autocratic Government Headed by a Dictatorial Leader This one is almost too easy: Trump says, “‘You’re not going to be a dictator are you?’ I said ‘No, no, no, other than day one.”...

Severe Economic and Social Regimentation Did we mention the “largest deportation operation in American history“? And promises to invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798...

Forcible Suppression of Opposition This is by far the most important component of the definition and the one that is the easiest to document in Trump’s own words... "

Bret Deveraux, American historian, October 25, 2024 https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...

It's a long blog post and the definitions are more detailed (hence the ellipses) and compared to Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism. Worth a read, paticularly if you are in search of definitions and examples.

[mindslight]

I read this when it was published (or perhaps partway and then it got lost in the tab forest). Thank you, because it was worth reading again for me, and lays out reasonable straightforward arguments for anyone just stumbling upon it for the first time.

But to be clear, what was I asking these interlocutors for was their definitions of fascism that back up the argument that trumpism is not fascism. So far the only answer I have gotten is "There is no definition of fascism that has meaning anymore" which is obviously nonsensical in the context of both Deveraux's and Doctorow's posts using the term productively.

[frm88]

I apologise. Reading-comprehension.exe has failed 100% on my side. Thank you for pointing that out.

[mindslight]

It probably didn't help that I replied to myself to respond to a dead comment! "We're all in this together, kid"