[palata]

Do you have an example of such knowledge that you need to get from the comments? I have been programming for 20 years, and I genuinely don't see that much code that is so complex that it needs comments.

Not that it doesn't exist; sometimes it's needed. But so rarely that I call it "comments", and not a whole discipline in itself that is apparently be called "literate programming". Literate programming sounds like "you need to comment pretty much everything because code is generally hard to understand". I disagree with that. Most code is trivial, though you may need to learn about the domain.

[ninalanyon]

I've never properly tried literate programming, overkill for hobby projects and not practical for a team unless everyone agrees.

Examples of code that needs comments in my career tend to come from projects that model the behaviour of electrical machines. The longest running such project was a large object oriented model (one of the few places where OOP really makes sense). The calculations were extremely time consuming and there were places where we were operating with small differences between large numbers.

As team members came and went and as the project matured the team changed from one composed of electrical engineers, physicists, and mathematicians who knew the domain inside out to one where the bulk of the programmers were young computer science graduates who generally had no physical science background at all.

This meant that they often had no idea what the various parts of the program were doing and had no intuition that would make them stop and think or ask a question before fixing a bug in wat seemed the most efficient way.

The problem in this case is that sometimes you have to sacrifice runtime speed for correctness and numerical stability. You can't always re-order operations to reduce the number of assignments say and expect to get the same answers.

Of course you can write unit and functional tests to catch some such errors but my experience says that tests need even better comments than the code that is being tested.

[EraYaN]

Because the why can be completely unrelated to the code (odd business requirements etc). The code can be known to be non-optimal but it is still the correct way because the embedded system used in product XYZ has some dumb chip in it that needs it this weird way etc. Or the CEO loves this way of doing things and fires everyone who touches it. So many possibilities, most technical projects have a huge amount of politics and weird legacy behavior that someone depends on (including on internal stuff, private methods are not guaranteed to not be used by a client for example). And comments can guard against it, both for the dev and the reviewer. Hell we currently have clients depend on the exact internal layout of some PDF reports, and not even the rendered layout but that actual definitions.

[palata]

Again, if it's a comment saying "we need this hack because the hardware doesn't support anything", I don't call it "literate programming".

Literate programming seems to be the idea that you should write prose next to the code, because code "is difficult to understand". I disagree with that. Most good code is simple to understand (doesn't mean it's easy to write good code).

And the comments here prove my point, I believe: whenever I ask for examples where a comment is needed, the answer is something very rare and specific (e.g. a hardware limitation). The answer to that is comments where those rare and specific situations arise. Not a whole concept of "literate programming".

[Izkata]

> Literate programming sounds like "you need to comment pretty much everything because code is generally hard to understand".

You and I read code. Came so naturally for me that I didn't realize others don't. But over the years and with some weird chats I've realized that for a lot of developers it's more like "deciphering code", like they're slowly translating a human language they only vaguely know - and it never even crossed their mind that it was possible to learn a programming language to the point you could just read it.

[tonyedgecombe]

Most of my comments related to the outside world not behaving quite as you would expect.

Usually something like the spec says this but the actual behaviour is something else.