[maest]

Yes, those acts are immensely terrible and the apologies feel minuscule by comparison. But I think there's room for more nuance here.

There are multiple reasons we put people in jail:

1. the victims can feel some vindication and retribution

2. other members of society can feel some vindication and retribution and a sense of justice

3. other would-be criminals are detered from committing similar crimes for fear of punishment

4. making people feel safe by showing them criminals are punished

5. removing a bad actor from society

6. reforming a bad actor and reintroducing them into society

Different cultures emphasize different combinations of reasons. For example, ine notable divide is how, in the US, 6. is considered to be the product of a naive mind, whereas in some nordic countries, that goal is taken seriously, with some amount of success (and perhaps at the detriment of other goals).

Anyway, I think your point is that, even if you take the convicts' apologies at face value, goals 1. and 2. remain unfulfilled. And 3. is probably weakened.

[sam0x17]

I've always felt very alone in my view on this, so don't feel bad if you disagree with me because most people probably do, but I just feel super morally icky when I hear about how part of our justice system is built around "retribution" / "vindication". Like it is one thing to punish, it is quite another to allow others to derive some sort of satisfaction from that punishment, even if they were victims, I just find it sick. It means as a society we are no better than the perpetrators at the end of the day.

[pinkmuffinere]

> it is quite another to allow others to derive some sort of satisfaction from that punishment

I sometimes see this behavior in close friends, and it totally changes the way I see them. I don't know if it's a moral failing on their part, but I just don't experience the desire for vengeance the same way they do, and it really scares me to see how they experience it. What will they do when they start to have mental decline, and (incorrectly) decide they were wronged in some way? :(

[worthless-trash]

I think this thought process is something that only people who have never been wronged can afford. There comes a time in life where the punishment must fit the crime, even if its only to make an example of the criminal.

Life is hard enough, we should deter crimes at every possibility, people are rarely punished for every evil they commit.

[Macha]

I was mugged as a teenager, and my house was burned down as an adult because a drug dealer lived on the same street.

Does that count me as sufficiently wronged to not be dismissed for sharing the parent posters viewpoint?

[worthless-trash]

If it doesn't.. it wasnt.

[sam0x17]

See this is my point though, it shouldn't matter what has happened to you, if that matters, then this is 100% emotional and not based on reason or justice.

[worthless-trash]

You're right. Justice should be served with reason and justice, at the moment it is served with far too much compassion for the criminal.

[rkomorn]

You're definitely not alone and I 100% share the thought in your last sentence.

[galkk]

Of course goal 1 is unfulfilled. Because victims are already dead. Often in very bad way.

I’m sure there are enough people who will consider goals 2, 4 and 5 fulfilled. I disagree with your assessment.

As I said - those pieces of shit lost their human privileges after what they did. You don’t fix them or reintroduce them to society.

I don’t care about abstracts. I care about the fact that some of those scumbags were kept alive longer than their victims lived on this earth, and suffered less in their demise.

[maest]

> Because victims are already dead.

In this case, I was thinking of the family as the "victims", but, yes, you do have a point.

[blell]

The Nordic countries do not have the demographics of the US. There’s some kind of person who is not reformable.

[orwin]

One of the man was convicted and put to death for killing his abusive mother. Don't get me wrong, killing is bad, he should feel bad and get punished, but his brother forgave him, he already did 20 (!) years, I don't know who you're protecting by putting him to death. A second mother?