[TurkTurkleton]

> it has somehow become not just commmon, but accepted that a vendor can tell us and force us to use something in the way they want.

The PS5 is a games console and is marketed as such, not a general-purpose computer. Of course they want, and "force", you to use it to play PS5 games. I have a hard time seeing this as coercive when computers still exist, even if architecturally a PS5 is virtually identical to a general-purpose computer in most of the ways that matter, because at least since the Fairchild Channel F, it's always been the case that consoles are just constrained computers.

> Imagine, for instance, if you bought a flat head screwdriver, but the manufacturer told you that you could never, ever, under any circumstances use it to pry something open. It was stricly to be used for installing or removing screws.

> We would all laugh that vendor out of the room and tell them they're insane. Somehow we stopped doing that with all sorts of newer technologies.

Imagine, for instance, if that flat head screwdriver had a means to prevent you from using it to pry things open. Some kind of magical negative mass in the handle that kicks in to cancel out leverage but not torque, or an explosive charge that blows your hand off if more than a certain amount of force is applied non-rotationally, or something. It might seem a little less risible then, and you would probably just opt to buy a screwdriver that doesn't have such restrictions (especially if those restrictions were explosively enforced).

Like, I get it. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the argument that we should be able to do whatever we want with hardware that we own. At the same time, being upset about the PS5 making it impossible to run arbitrary software without hacking feels a little like being upset that your washing machine doesn't clean your dirty dishes as well as it cleans your dirty laundry: it's not made for that, and it's not really reasonable to expect it to be able to do that well if at all.

[MarsIronPI]

> At the same time, being upset about the PS5 making it impossible to run arbitrary software without hacking feels a little like being upset that your washing machine doesn't clean your dirty dishes as well as it cleans your dirty laundry: it's not made for that, and it's not really reasonable to expect it to be able to do that well if at all.

Except that's so completely not like what's going on with modern hardware. They're taking general purpose computers and restricting you from doing general purpose computing on them. Like, a dishwasher is made to wash dishes. It has a shape and a design made for washing dishes. You would need to make physical modifications to get it to wash clothes. This is like taking a machine that could wash both dishes and clothes and intentionally stopping it from washing clothes.

This is not OK. This needs to stop. Soon they'll come for our general-purpose computing with "features" for DRM.

[johnnyanmac]

> They're taking general purpose computers and restricting you from doing general purpose computing on them.

But so much tech hardware is commodified. A pregnancy test probably isn't using hardware dissimilar to your laptop. It just has less of it.

I don't think there's an expectation that every electronic is user programmable. But anything that is general phrpose should be punished as such for trying to put in excessive restrictions. There are arguments for game consoles on both aisles, but I don't agree with the mentality of "anything with general hardware needs general programming ability"

[MarsIronPI]

To me, the difference between a pregnancy test and a PS5 is that the pregnancy test isn't programmable at all, whereas a PS5 is programmable by people who have paid Sony for the privilege, and only at the pleasure of Sony. That's the problem.

[musicale]

It sounds like you don't like Sony's (and Nintendo's etc.) business model, which involves charging licensing fees to amortize R&D expenses and make money generally.

Sony has had this business model since the original PlayStation (1994), but it doesn't seem to have destroyed the ability to run Linux on your PC, or to have a Linux-based game console like the Steam Deck or Steam Machine.

[MarsIronPI]

Yup, I don't like their business model for the same reason that I don't like the business model of Facebook or TikTok. Just because consumers should be able to choose something harmful to themselves doesn't mean that the companies should offer it.

[musicale]

Is Mario really harmful?

You may also be surprised that some people consider the fixed-function design of game consoles to be a positive thing.

[musicale]

Most appliances have fairly general-purpose microcontrollers inside them, but expose a fixed-function interface. Hopefully things like safety interlocks for microwave oven doors are implemented in hardware rather than software.

> Soon they'll come for our general-purpose computing with "features" for DRM.

You... haven't noticed all of the existing DRM features?

[MarsIronPI]

Not on my computer. I'm worried that there's a chance that someday general-purpose computing hardware will be locked down to the same degree that mobile or console hardware is today.

[musicale]

I see. So no intel CPUs with secret microcode and internal VMs. No ASICs with opaque internal functions and control software. No machine-readable serial numbers. Certainly no NVIDIA GPUs, and probably no AMD or Intel either. No hard-coded MAC addresses for Ethernet, Bluetooth, or Wi-Fi. No USB. No secure boot or signed firmware. No secure enclaves. And of course no DRM-encumbered software like common web browsers or media playback systems. No Apple Music, Spotify, Netflix, Steam, etc. So basically a system that regular people would not want to use.