[riffraff]

> Whew. Ok. You don't tell it the code is slow. Do you tell your coworker "Hey, your code is slow" and expect great results?

Yes? Why don't you?

They are capable people that just didn't notice something, id I notice some telemetry and tell them "hey this is slow" they are expected to understand the reason(s).

[Implicated]

So, you observed some telemetry - which would have been some sort of specific metric, right? Wouldn't you communicate that to them as well, not just "it's slow"?

"Hey, I saw that metric A was reporting 40% slower, are you aware already or have any ideas as to what might be causing that?"

Those two approaches are going to produce rather distinctly different results whether you're speaking to a human or typing to a GPU.

[bryanrasmussen]

Yeah if my co-worker can't start figuring out why the code is slow, with a reasonable reference to what the code in question is, that is a knock against their skills. I would actually expect some ideas as to what the problem is just off the top of their heads, but that the coding agent can't do that isn't a hit against it specifically, this is now a good part of what needs to be done differently.

The suggestion to tell the agent to do performance analysis of the part of the code you think is problematic, and offer suggestions for improvements seems like the proper way to talk to a machine, whereas "hey your code is slow" feels like the proper way to talk to a human.

[brabel]

As someone who leads a team of engineers, telling someone their code is slow is not nice, helpful or something a good team member should do. It’s like telling them there’s a bug and not explaining what the bug is. Code can be slow for infinite reasons, maybe the input you gave is never expected and it’s plenty fast otherwise. Or the other dev is not senior enough to know where problems may be. It can be you when I tell you your OOP code is super slow, but you only ever done OOP and have no idea how to put data in a memory layouts that avoids cpu cache misses or whatever. So no that’s not the proper way to talk to humans. And AI is only as good as the quality of what you’re asking. It’s a bit like a genie, it will give you what you asked , not what you actually wanted. Are you prepared for the ai to rewrite your Python code in C to speed it up? Can it just add fast libraries to replace the slow ones you had selected? Can it write advanced optimization techniques it learned about from phd thesis you would never even understand?

[bryanrasmussen]

>As someone who leads a team of engineers, telling someone their code is slow is not nice, helpful or something a good team member should do

right, I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios where that is the case and probably the phrasing would be something like that seems slow, or it seems to be taking longer than expected or some other phrasing that is actually synonymous with the code is slow. On the other hand there are also people that you can say the code is slow to, and they won't worry about it.

>So no that’s not the proper way to talk to humans

In my experience there are lots of proper ways to talk to humans, and part of the propriety is involved with what your relationship with them is. so it may be the proper way to talk to a subset of humans, which is generally the only kinds of humans one talks to - a subset. I certainly have friends that I have worked to for a long time who can say "what the fuck were you thinking here" or all sorts of things that would not be nice if it came from other people but is in fact a signifier of our closeness that we can talk in such a way. Evidently you have never led a team with people who enjoyed that relationship between them, which I think is a shame.

Finally, I'll note that when I hear a generalized description of a form of interaction I tend to give what used to be called "the benefit of a doubt" and assume that, because of the vagaries of human language and the necessity of keeping things not a big long harangue as every communication must otherwise become in order to make sure all bases of potential speech are covered, that the generalized description may in fact cover all potential forms of polite interaction in that kind of interaction, otherwise I should have to spend an inordinate amount of my time lecturing people I don't know on what moral probity in communication requires.

But hey, to each their own.

on edit: "the what the fuck were you thinking here" quote is also an example of a generalized form of communication that would be rude coming from other people but was absolutely fine given the source, and not an exact quote despite the use of quotation marks in the example.

[crazygringo]

...no?

"Your code is slow" is essentially meaningless.

A normal human conversation would specify which code/tasks/etc., how long it's currently taking, how much faster it needs to be, and why. And then potentially a much longer conversation about the tradeoffs involved in making in faster. E.g. a new index on the database that will make it gigabytes larger, a lookup table that will take up a ton more memory, etc. Does the feature itself need to be changed to be less capable in order to achieve the speed requirements?

If someone told me "hey your code is slow" and walked away, I'd just laugh, I think. It's not a serious or actionable statement.

[Implicated]

Thank you.

[zabzonk]

Well, I would say something like "We seem to be having some performance issues the business has noticed in the XYZ stuff. Shall we sit down together and see if we can work out if we can improve things?"

[scotty79]

There was a 20+ person team of well paid, smart (mostly Java) programmers that dealt for months with slow application they were building, that everyone knew was slow. I nagged them for weeks to set up indexes even for small, 100 row tables. Once they did things started running orders of magnitude faster.

Your expectations for people (and LLMs) are way too high.