[jv22222]

> Any idiot can now prompt their way to the same software.

It may look the same, but it isn't the same.

In fact if you took the time to truly learn how to do pure agentic coding (not vibe coding) you would realize as a principal engineer you have an advantage over engineers with less experience.

The more war stories, the more generalist experience, the more you can help shape the llm to make really good code and while retaining control of every line.

This is an unprecedented opportunity for experienced devs to use their hard won experience to level themselves up to the equivalence of a full team of google devs.

[kazinator]

> while retaining control of every line

What I want when I'm coding, especially on open source side projects, is to retain copyright licensing over every line (cleanly, without lying about anything).

Whoops!

[jv22222]

Hmm. TIL: The real exposure isn't Anthropic, OpenIA claiming your code, it's you unknowingly distributing someone else's GPL code because the model silently reproduced it, with essentially zero recourse for the model owner.

[ad_hockey]

It depends on your plan, but Google[1] and Anthropic[2] at least provide indemnity against this. Haven't checked the others. Still not a situation you want to find yourself in, though.

[1] https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/p...

[2] https://www.anthropic.com/news/expanded-legal-protections-ap...

[kazinator]

> Under the updated terms, we will defend our customers from any copyright infringement claim made against them for their authorized use of our services or their outputs, and we will pay for any approved settlements or judgments that result

"We are going to use our deep billionaire pockets to squash the fucker artist who dares identify something of his that we stole, that made its way into your output ..."

[satvikpendem]

I wonder why people still believe in intellectual property, it's a concept that has long since lived past its usefulness, especially technologically.

[kazinator]

A free license, like the BSD, if followed, ensures that the unpaid creator of a free work is at least credited. Everyone using that work at the source code level sees the copyright notice with that author's name. The author has already given everyone the freedom to do anything with the code, except for plagiarism. AI is taking away the last thing from peoiple who have shared everything else.

[satvikpendem]

Why is plagiarism an issue? In school it's an issue due to the effect that students won't learn well if they just copy everything, but outside of school and especially for personal use, why should I care if I "plagiarize" or not (and arguably AI doesn't even plagiarize as it's not a 1 to 1 copy paste of the code when making a new project)? The concept of plagiarism is as much a fiction as "intellectual" property. The only sort of property that actually exists is real and tangible.

[kazinator]

> Why is plagiarism an issue?

For starters, because of the western values of giving credit.

We have diseases named after people, never mind inventions and ideas.

Plagiarism is kick-out-of-school grade academic misconduct, whereby you are pretending that someone's work (and the ability it implies) is your own.

> The only sort of property that actually exists is real and tangible.

Remember, I'm talking about works that are free to redistribute, use and even modify. Or in other cases, that the users to whom a compiled work is distributed have access to the buildable source code.

The authors put their names on it, and terms which says that their notices are to be preserved when copies are made.

This isn't good enough for the Altmans and Amodeis of the world.

> it's an issue due to the effect that students won't learn well if they just copy everything

... and fraudulently obtain professional licensing, and use that to cause harm: medical malpractice, unsafe engineering.

It is fraud.

[satvikpendem]

None of what you said shows how it's an issue, beyond "it just is." Doctors for example "plagiarize" all the time, copying standardized diagnostic protocols, clinical notes from previous visits, and peer-reviewed treatment plans. The risk is in the information actually being wrong rather than them having "original" expression (which might even be worse, where they try some "novel" treatment and end up killing the patient). There is no fraud involved as the effects of plagiarism which is, again, a completely fictional issue.

I am also not sure why you keep bringing up Altman et al, I really don't give a shit what they are talking about, that is not what I am discussing. You for some reason keep trying to inject your views on these people when they are not relevant to the points I made which are about the theoretical concepts of machine learning and training, and its intersection with intellectual property. I am not interested in your opinions on these people, and they are not the only ones who stand to benefit from democratization of AI models and publishing of weights for the public.

Anyway, I think we both fundamentally have different views on the freedom of information and the fallacious nature of IP that cannot be changed online so I will bid you a good day and won't continue this conversation further, as I don't think it's productive for either of us.

[bitwize]

Because IP democratizes returns on the creative process.

[satvikpendem]

Maybe it used to but with companies like Disney lengthening copyright times way beyond the original intention, or corporations patenting absurd things, it seems to be more of a way to entrench power than any sort of democratization. I'm glad generative AI seem to be bypassing all this and actually democratizing returns on the creative process, by flagrantly violating the concept of IP.

[kazinator]

In the case of BSD-like licenses, IP is applied in a way that discourages plagiarism, while giving all the practical freedoms to the users, including making proprietary products.

In the case of copyleft licenses like GPL, IP is applied in a way to ensure that users have the code.

These things are taken away when the code is laundered through AI.

[bitwize]

Again, start talking to people outside the field of programming and ask them how they like it when their labor of passion is "democratized" by AI turning it into unattributable slurry.

[satvikpendem]

I don't really care how they like it because it's not up to them how I use the tools I want to use. It's literally the same argument photographers faced 100 years ago and in another 100 years I guarantee no one will be talking about AI in the terms you are today.