[eichler1]

All y'all's conspiracy theories about Israel are just tiresome, and of course, false. Israel has advanced to the point that it likely could exist, or soon will be able to exist, without support of the U.S. The U.S. military likely relies more on Israeli technology than the other way around, and certainly the U.S. military would get nowhere in the Middle East without the IDF's and Mossad's unparalleled military intelligence and planning. Remember that when Israel attacked Iran last year, the IDF was doing fine and taking out targets until that pendejo plastered with orange makeup in the tackily gilded White House, then still deluded with the idea of receiving a Nobel peace prize, screamed at Netanhayu to stop so he could drop a huge bomb and take credit in the gullible (or now captive) U.S. media that he "ended" the war.

Also worth consideration is that the comment by the boozing, former TV host U.S. secretary "of war" that rules of engagement are "stupid" stands in stark contrast to the IDF's scrupulous use of rules of engagement and resort to teams of lawyers to guide its military activities. Remember that the IDF warns residents of buildings it targets and even sends them texts messages to get out before bombing the buildings. Who else does that?

Also incredibly tiresome and patently false is that Israel committed "genocide" in Gaza -- no matter how many "activists" and misguided Western politicians scream that term. Hamas illegally entered Israel on 7 Oct 2023 and massacred more than a thousand Israeli citizens, and kidnapped hundred more, including babies and octogenarians, to be kept in fetid conditions and used as political pawns (or killed). Hamas even played politics with the bodies of Israelis they killed. Hamas raped and killed one young Israeli woman, then paraded her body around in the back of a technical (pickup) to the enthusiastic cheers of Gazans. For such acts of barbarism, Hamas had an approx. 55 to 60-percent approval rating from Gazans. Hamas purposely hid munitions in hospitals and schools then played the victim when those facilities were bombed. Hamas also forced people to stay in the buildings bombed by the IDF to run up their alleged death toll. This is how those depraved cowards play their game.

Did you ever notice when the Western press dutifully announced the Gaza death toll, the source was the "Gaza Health Ministry"? In other words, Hamas -- which allows NO press freedom of any kind -- is free to make up the death toll that forms the basis for mindless screaming of "genocide."

The irony is that Hamas is deftly playing Western liberals. Consider that Hamas's own charter explicitly calls for the death of all Jews -- genocide, anyone -- along with other non-Muslims (so Christians and nonbelievers are next).

On the other hand, the 7 Oct 2023 Hamas massacre turned out to be the most catastrophic miscalculation in modern military history. Every senior officer from Hamas, Hezbollah, IRGC, Houthi and Iran (Khamenei) now is dead.

[jfengel]

the 7 Oct 2023 Hamas massacre turned out to be the most catastrophic miscalculation in modern military history.

I'm genuinely unclear on what the calculation was supposed to reveal. What did they think the outcome was going to be?

I'm put in mind of the 9/11 attacks on the US -- arguably, an even bigger miscalculation. At the time, everybody expected there to be follow-ups, and there were none.

The US certainly managed to tie itself up in knots of security theater, but al Qaeda painted a massive target on its own back. I cannot imagine what they thought was going to happen.

As for Gaza, as best I can judge, it was Iran's idea to sacrifice plenty of Gazans in the hopes that Israel would overreact and isolate itself even further from the world. Which is what they got, but that's really a lot of cost for not much benefit. Israel was already quite isolated; it just made the news for a while.

[cardanome]

Wow this is the worst hasbara attempt I have seen in a long time.

The irony is that I was actually defending Israel in a sense as I don't make it solely responsible for the Iran war. But you would rather agree with literal antisemites than admit any weakness of the oh so superior people of Israel.

You are completely delusional. Do you really think the Arab states would play ball with with Israel if daddy US didn't force them? The people of the world hate Israel for its crimes against humanity.

You couldn't even defeat Hamas. You had to seek an armistice that only one sides respects: Hamas. You have broken it nearly every day. You still refuse to sent basic aid into Gaza.

> Did you ever notice when the Western press dutifully announced the Gaza death toll, the source was the "Gaza Health Ministry"? In other words, Hamas -- which allows NO press freedom of any kind -- is free to make up the death toll that forms the basis for mindless screaming of "genocide."

uhm

> Israeli officials appeared to accept that some 70,000 Palestinians have died in the war in Gaza. Israel had long disputed the figures from Gaza's health ministry, saying the agency was run by Hamas.

https://www.dw.com/en/israel-broadly-accepts-gaza-ministry-d...

I guess you didn't get the memo.

> Consider that Hamas's own charter explicitly calls for the death of all Jews -- genocide, anyone -- along with other non-Muslims (so Christians and nonbelievers are next).

Oh yeah, it says such horrible things like:

> The Palestinian people are one people, made up of all Palestinians, inside and outside of Palestine, irrespective of their religion, culture or political affiliation.

or

> Hamas believes that the message of Islam upholds the values of truth, justice, freedom and dignity and prohibits all forms of injustice and incriminates oppressors irrespective of their religion, race, gender or nationality. Islam is against all forms of religious, ethnic or sectarian extremism and bigotry.

or

> Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170510123932/http://hamas.ps/e...

I know you were not referring to the charter of 2017 but of 1988 because why play fair. But what you said is even a gross misrepresentation of the charter of 1988.

I sadly don't have time to debunk all the other lies that have been debunked thousands of times already.

The day will come when those that commit crimes against humanity will face the consequences.

Palestine will be free.

[eichler1]

First, "Palestinians" is a flexible term. When Jews returned in the early 20th century to what now is Israel, the land was called Palestine and they, too, were Palestinians. "Palestinians," at least as it refers to mostly Jordanian descendants who copped the term "Palestinian" for political reasons mid-last century as part of a language to discredit Israel, will NEVER be free, as "freedom" is defined in the West, under their own leadership. That's why I have to laugh at all those westerners who enjoy freedom of speech and press defending a society that has an absolute ban on same. And to LGBTQ+ who support "Palestinians"? I say, buy a one-way ticket to Gaza and enjoy the "rooftop party" that will be prepared in your honor. The Arabs who live in Israel know exactly how "free" their brethren under Hamas rule are, and they also know that they enjoy far greater personal freedoms and rights under the Israeli government than they would in any Arab-run country in the Middle East. How many Israeli Arabs do you see desiring to emigrate to Gaza? Or the "West Bank"? Or try Arab-controlled nations? Why might that be? Could it be that under allegedly "apartheid" Israel, they know they have it much better (e.g. 1/3 of the doctors in Israel are Palestinian? how would that happen under "apartheid")?

As to any "acceptance" of 70,000 dead in Gaza: First, how is any particular number "proof" of genocide? How many of the alleged 70,000 were combatants? I'll bet the Hamas "Health Ministry" hasn't released that little gem, and even if they did, would you actually believe them? How many were civilians? How many of those civilians were used as human shields while their leaders demonstrated their cowardice by partying in luxury apartments in Doha rather than standing shoulder-to-shoulder with their so-called fighters? IOW, to the extent there were civilian casualties, what portion of the death count consisted of civilians whom Hamas's cowardly leadership forced to remain in buildings that were bombed? That statistic, too, I do not expect to hear from Hamas. Also, why is the number of dead in Gaza so important as to get daily news coverage in the Western media, animating those falsely screaming "genocide," when Russia is busily bombing and killing Ukranians, yet we're not treated to the same sort of breathless daily tally? Where are the screams of "GENOCIDE!" against Russia? Hmmm.

I love this: "You are completely delusional. Do you really think the Arab states would play ball with with Israel if daddy US didn't force them?" First, I love the personal attack. Keep up the good work. Second, while the U.S. may have given normalization between Israel and Morocco, UAE and Sudan a push (or more?), those ties have strengthened on their own. You may not wish to recognize that Israel is a research and technology powerhouse. However, for example, Israel and Morocco have developed ties with interchanges of science and technology in the areas of agriculture and defense, among others, much of which occurred when Biden, not Trump, was president. These ties strengthened because the nations considered it beneficial to engage in the interchanges based on the merits of what each nation had to offer. Israel also now is assisting Sudan with water-management technology and has joint ventures with UAE in defense. If you can produce any evidence that "big daddy forced" these ventures and technology exchanges, go for it. Finally, Israel was developing diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia in 2023. No doubt this development freaked out Iran, which has been funding Hamas for decades. But I'll bet you've convinced yourself that the timing of the barbaric and cowardly 7 Oct 2023 attack was mere coincidence!

As to which Hamas charter to cite, Hamas leaders when commenting on the 2017 charter "fell short of formally repudiating the original 1988 charter," sayeth Wikipedia. Again, feel free to produce evidence that Hamas explicitly repudiated the portion of the 1988 charter that calls for wiping out ALL Jews and other non-Islam believers. The 7 Oct 2023 attack is clear evidence that they did not repudiate that cause. Why else would they kill and kidnap and torture and rape and parade and /or withhold the dead bodies of Jewish civilians, instead of focusing on the IDF? They their hatred (and specific targeting) of Jews and their depravity by celebrating and cheering the murders, kidnappings and rapes.

Also: when chanting "from the river to the sea," as western protesters are wont to do, do these geniuses understand that they are calling for the very sort of genocide that is baked into Hamas's 1988 charter? Does no one get the irony of accusing a nation of "genocide," then parading through the streets and yelling for the genocide of the people of that nation?

True, the IDF did not "defeat" Hamas. All you can do with an enemy like that is set it back, which the IDF did succeed in doing. Hamas not only is a band of cowards, incompetents and criminals, but it is a band of irrational true believers, making them all the more difficult to eradicate completely. To their credit they are master manipulators (until debunked - remember the claimed hospital bombing incident quickly blamed on Israel until it was shown that the pendejos killed their own people with their own ill-fired missile?), but they sure as hell suck at governing. Like true welfare queens they depend on mass funds from Arab nations, Europe and, ironically, U.S. taxpayers and instead of investing those funds in the betterment of the people of Gaza, they built hundreds of KM of terror tunnels (where they hide like rats and held the living and dead of those civilians they kidnapped), acquired all manner of weaponry to be used in hopes of wiping out Israel, and fired a never-ending stream of missiles at civilian targets in Israel. Though the IDF gave them a boost, it would be up to the people of Gaza to "defeat" Hamas, they leadership they chose in the first place. It is a sad that they cannot pull together the will to do so and pick leaders that will actually govern with even a modicum of competency.