[markstos]

Press release touts "built with the environment mind", but is silent on repairability.

Also this week: Lenovo's new ThinkPads score 10/10 for repairability showing that even popular modules of mainstream manufacturers can build with repairability in mind.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/115827/new-thinkpads-score-perfe...

Apple I imagine is still soldering their storage and memory to the motherboard.

[kube-system]

Non-Socketed memory and storage is more of an upgrade friendly feature rather than a repairability feature. They don’t often fail. And most people do not attempt to upgrade their devices anyway, especially the type of people who are not power users, and are buying low end devices. For most people, upgrades are no longer a purchasing consideration, and they will buy the laptop that’s five dollars cheaper and has more attractive packaging.

And no, Apple is not soldering memory to the main board on most of their computers these days. All of the M series computers have the memory on package with the CPU, because there are latency issues with putting it any further away. The A18 Pro that this laptop uses is package-on-package, the DRAM is directly on top of the SoC.

There are no socketed standards for LPDDR anyway.

[odo1242]

Socketed RAM is fine, but what do you mean by storage doesn’t fail often? It’s usually the first part that fails on any computer.

[kube-system]

Not since we got rid of spinning rust. Most common failures are batteries, and the parts of the computer subject to direct abuse by the user: keyboard, connectors, the display, etc.

[cromka]

My Macbook M1 which I use extensively since 2021:

Data Units Read : 1267900331 (649.16 TB)

Data Units Written : 904681650 (463.20 TB)

power_cycles : 667

power_on_hours : 9611

and yet it's still only:

available_spare : 100%

available_spare_threshold : 99%

percentage_used : 16%

I don't expect it to fail anytime soon.

[rick_dalton]

On my M1 Air I have: Percentage Used: 4% Data Units Read: 564,731,366 [289 TB] Data Units Written: 182,194,700 [93.2 TB] and I thought I was using it extensively haha.

[rkozik1989]

Yeah, but what happens when you drop your laptop on the ground and it breaks? Good look recovering data without having to pay a recovery firm a $1000.

[kube-system]

Personally, I restore my Time Machine back up. I’m sure some people might restore their files from iCloud or elsewhere.

It’s a pretty bad idea to keep valuable documents on a mobile device. You can’t recover the data from socketed storage if it’s lost or stolen.

[philistine]

You're out of date; Apple is soldering the memory to the CPU directly. I mean are you complaining that you can't swap your L2 cache or replace the math coprocessor? The history of computing is one of the CPU absorbing every single discrete component over time. Apple is at a point where the CPU has to absorb the RAM to maintain their performance lead. I'm happy I get a super fast computer.

[seabass]

And the battery or SSD?

[philistine]

Well the battery is usually glued, but Apple has started using this weird glue that releases if you give it a specific electric charge. It's replaceable but it's a complicated affair. I expect the Neo's battery to be glued on the chassis.

The SSD is difficult to replace because Apple uses storage chips with no controller; the SSD controller is in their CPU. So you can't put in any M.2 in there even if you wanted. Some small companies have managed to offer upgrade parts for the Mac Mini, which has socketed storage chips.

As time marches on and PC manufacturers stay still, Apple manages to simplify its logic boards by reducing the number of connectors and parts, lowering the price to make a computer. Apple, which has never really offered anything below 1000$, has entered a new market with a bang.

I expect a computer in 20 years to look like the system-on-a-chip that Apple makes for its watches. I don't know why people are adamant that we need more controllers and chips on our machines, not less.

[solsane]

My 2c: I meet people all the time using the same Macbooks for 5+ years. While I'm attracted to modularity, SoCs have undeniable advantages (I'm assuming other commenters will cover this). I bought the fanless MB Air because I imagine this thing could probably go for a decade without any repair, outside the battery. I'd say this longevity is worthy of praise.

For contrast, I used a Surface Book throughout college and within weeks of the warranty expiring I ran into serious issues with the battery, then the charging port, display backlight, fan. I loved it to death so I kept it on life support and changed my usage patterns until I gave up on it. And yes, my next device was a used Thinkpad, and I was able to fix most issues I ran into. But I'd

I am NOT a fan of the measures Apple takes to monopolize the maintenance and repair of their devices.

[dntrkv]

I’m still using my M1 MacBook from 6 years ago. My company keeps emailing me to upgrade to the newest one but everything works perfectly fine and the performance is more than adequate for dev work.

Compared to pre-Apple silicon I was getting company exemptions to upgrade before I was technically allowed.

M series Macs are just amazing devices.

[sodality2]

I expect the customer of this product is not worried about repairability: to them, it's just an iPad with a keyboard. You're also citing 3x higher costs, so they're really not comparable.

The lack of upgradability is directly what provides a lot of benefits that I expect the average consumer vastly prefers: better performance with soldered memory and better battery life. It's not just to shaft you on prices (though that's definitely a big factor).

[vikramkr]

I mean durability is as or more important than repairability and apple products have a reputation for lasting a long time and holding their value. And getting software support etc. In general I think tech nerds underestimate how much people value durability over repairability and how hard it can be to sell repairability. Ive found that "this product is repairable" can be interpreted by people im trying to convince to buy a framework as "this product will need to be repaired and it's going to be your problem." On the other hand Apple's reputation for durability means that buying a used MacBook to save money is a serious and popular option which is by far the most environmentally friendly option compared to any new device, however repairable. The repairability <-> sustainability relationship isn't as straightforward as people suggest in the real world imo

[hbn]

> Apple I imagine is still soldering their storage and memory to the motherboard.

Memory would be in the SoC no?

[kube-system]

It’s stacked package-on-package for the a18 pro.

[illwrks]

If you stop the video you can see the 8 screws on the bottom of the Neo. I'm hoping that means there's some level of repairability at least from a battery perspective. I'm looking forward to some teardowns when it's in peoples hands.

[tim333]

Apple's idea of that is to shred old stuff and reuse the material.

[insane_dreamer]

That's the tradeoff with making something small and light. I don't have a big problem with it.

[wiseowise]

How’s screen, keyboard and cooling in those? Still garbage matrix with flimsy keyboard and jet loud cooling system?

[happyopossum]

What MacBooks are you referring to? I haven't heard a fan running on a MacBook for over half a decade, and they replaced the butterfly keyboards several generations ago...

[Mashimo]

No reviews out yet.

I like the keyboard on my gen1 T14, did it change later on?

[post-it]

> Still

2020 called, you're going to want to stock up on toilet paper.

[eldaisfish]

that ifixit article is an AI slop puff piece.

Thinkpads have good repairability, few people would debate that. They are not perfect and the ifixit "review" itself acknowledges that the wifi antenna is soldered, hence not repairable.

[NetMageSCW]

Do internal WiFi antennas fail often?