[shafyy]

Not sure if you're kidding or not, but to write great maintable code, you need a lot of understanding that a LLM just doesn't have, like history, business context, company culture etc. Also, I doubt that in it's training data it has a lot of good examples of great maintainable code to pull from.

[yudhiyudhi]

Neither do most humans writing such code, i have seen llms generate better code than 90% of coders I have seen in the last 20 years

[forgetfreeman]

Admitting you've spent two decades on a career stuck working in the kind of sweatshops that hire people who can't actually code isn't much of a flex, and certainly doesn't lend a whole lot of credence to your argument.

[zelphirkalt]

Not the GP, but when I take strolls through some open source project hosted on GitHub, usually I am not impressed either. Unnecessary OOPism, way too long procedures, that instead could be pure functions, badly named variables, and way, way, waaay too many willy-nilly added dependencies. If that is what the LLMs mostly learn from, I am not surprised at all. But then again this stuff was also written by humans. I remember one especially bad case of a procedure in a very popular project (in its niche) that was basically a 1 man show. A procedure of 300+ lines doing all kinds of stuff, changing the global state of that service it is implementing. But that code was or is relied upon by tech giants and other businesses and no one improves it. They are happy with paying that one guy probably not so much money.

[shafyy]

Please let's stop with the "but some humans also suck at this so it's ok if LLMs also suck at it" argument. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

[Thanemate]

Awesome! However, the corporate is excited with using AI, making the coder the one who's at risk at getting fired for writing the exact same lousy (for the sake of the argument) code.

Or worse: for not relying as much as possible to the AI who apparently can write just as bad code but faster!

A subtle detail: you speak of coders, not software engineers. A SWE's value is not his code churning speed.

[shimman]

This says more about you and the people you work with. I find engineers that have been at the company for a while are quite invaluable when it comes to this information, it's not just knowing the how but the when + why that's critical as well.

Acting like people can't be good at their job is frankly dehumanizing and says a lot about your mindset with how you view other fellow devs.

[zelphirkalt]

If only more engineers admitted, that something they wrote is not good code, but a product of its time, then I think we would get more realistic expectations.

It's OK to say that something you made is shit. It is OK to say that you were not given time to do xyz.

How you recognize something has been made fitting at least is, when you see it in use without much of a change for some 3 or 4 years and while you are the person maintaining it, you rarely ever need to touch it, because you built it in a way that is simple enough to not have tons of bugs yet flexible enough, to cover use-cases and anticipated use-cases.

[nhayfield]

He isn't kidding. I have a directive to write the shortest, least complicated, readable business code and it makes a huge difference

[kurthr]

Sometimes, as in the bilsbi's top level comment, the solution is to use a free tool/library/product that already exists. The solution is not always to write new code, but the agent will happily do it.

Maybe that's "the manager's job", but that's just passing the buck and getting a worse solution. Every level of management should be looking for the best solution.

[whattheheckheck]

"Be sure to remember software is a sociotechnical system and dont fall prey to the Mechanistic myth"