[ThoAppelsin]

DMs are akin to private conversations in real life. Thus, every DM feature should entail E2EE.

It’s ok for a platform to not feature private conversations. They should just have no DM feature at all, then; make all messages publicly visible.

Private conversations are indeed not for all ages. Parents should be able to grant access to that on individual basis.

[kreco]

> They should just have no DM feature at all, then; make all messages publicly visible.

This makes no sense.

I can discuss something in a bar which is not a very private conversation, I wouldn't care if someone else hear what I'm saying. But I also don't want someone to record it and post it on the internet to be seen by the whole world.

Privacy is not just boolean you toggle somewhere.

[93po]

In a bar you're not speaking directly into a microphone that is permanently saving everything you say for later instant access by every government and advertising agency that wants to prosecute you or invade your privacy to sell you something

[kreco]

Exactly.

You didn't mention the fact that my mom cannot access the recording of my microphone.

That's what ThoAppelsin is proposing.

It should be fairly implicit that if you are using a free product from a private company you are the products.

However it's definitely not implicit that every I do on the platform will get publicly known by everyone else. If it does I would probably not use it and find alternatives.

[bougainvilley]

I suppose they mean that apps should brand their non e2ee chat features as private or personal, which is what users take as the default assumption when interacting in one to one chat.

[bdamm]

Ah, but you see, soon TikTok will allow parents to spy on their children's DMs, and parents will love this.

[gzread]

Isn't that something we asked for? We keep asking for parents to parent their children instead of getting age verification laws, and that is what that looks like.

[Galanwe]

I fail to see the link between private conversations/DM and E2EE.

To quote a comment I made some time ago:

- You can call your service e2e encrypted even if every client has the same key bundled into the binary, and rotate it from time to time when it's reversed.

- You can call your service e2e encrypted even if you have a server that stores and pushes client keys. That is how you could access your message history on multiple devices.

- You can call your service e2e encrypted and just retrieve or push client keys at will whenever you get a government request.

E2EE only prevents naive middlemen from reading your messages.

[Ekaros]

Fundamentally actual E2EE is complicated problem. And probably not very user friendly. It is full of technical trade-offs. And mistakes are very common. Or they lead to situations that people do not want. Like if you lost your phone or it break how do you get history back... What if you also forgot password? Or it was stored in local manager...

It is phrase that sounds good. But actually doing it effectively in way that average user understand and can use system with it with minimal effort is very hard.

[bstsb]

no you couldn't. that wouldn't be considered end-to-end encrypted in any modern sense

[Galanwe]

What I described is essentially how the vast majority of E2EE messaging platforms work. And I say that having worked for one of them.

[quotemstr]

> DMs are akin to private conversations in real life

There are parents out there who would record and AI-analyze every single private conversation their kids have if only the technology enabled it.

[Ekaros]

You could have reasonable legal system where privacy is guaranteed. But you do not need end to end encryption for that to be thing. It really is orthogonal issue.

[theblazehen]

Sure, however kids these days often can't socialize irl - should kids be isolated from friends because they're unable to have any private conversations at all?

During times in which I was unable to socialize irl (eg school holidays), and unable to talk to my friends online, I can confirm that the isolation was not good for my mental health.