[mg]

The one thing that interests me most when it comes to laptops these days is weight. So I jumped right into the tech specs section and looked it up. Since this is the "Air" laptop of the company that is popular for thin and lightweight devices, my hopes were high.

But ...

The 13 inch version is heavier than a ThinkPad X1 Carbon. Which has a 14 inch screen and can run Linux.

[caymanjim]

I bought a ThinkPad X1. Had to send it back for repairs three times in the first year, including a complete motherboard replacement, and it died again immediately after the warranty expired. Been a $2800 door stop since then. The case is flimsy plastic that gets beat to crap easily. The trackpad is over-sensitive in all the wrong ways which makes it hard to use as an actual laptop. Plus it's weaker and slower than an Air. Also unbearably loud and unbearably hot.

I don't like Apple as a company and I don't particularly like MacOS, but no one except Apple makes a laptop worth a damn.

[Liftyee]

Was it a Gen 1 device? I bought a Thinkpad X13 Gen 1 many years ago and it kept having blue screens from RAM errors and other problems. Eventually after many warranty attempts and motherboard replacements they sent me a new X13 Gen 4. This has been running Ubuntu with no problems for 4 years now, it might be more a "lemons" phenomenon than a general rule. Also, AFAIK, the case is metal with a "soft-touch" coating.

The Apple ARM processors are still in a league of their own but personally I'm not willing to give up my OS freedom of choice for that advantage.

[boomskats]

Not my experience in the slightest, after two decades of personal thinkpads and around 20 issued to my team.

Also if you'd just spent that extra 120 bucks for the 3 year onsite warranty, you'd have a lenovo technician replacing your motherboard at a location of your choice the next working day.

[dask]

Very different experience here. I have an X1 Extreme Gen 4 since 2022 (running Linux), and have had zero hardware issues so far. The only thing that's annoying is that it gets quite warm on the hand rest.

[BunsanSpace]

I have an X1 Carbon 2023. It's pretty solid, the only complaint I have is once the CPU usage is over 10% the fan starts running full blast.

[a456463]

Eh. Just simply on stability and life, beyond CMOS battery and laptop battery changes, my 5x 2015-2018 lenovos are working like a charm. I love the plastic case, it flexes and catches falls better than the mac. The MBPs have fallen down and dent like crazy, leak electricity through the metal body, weight like crazy and still no OS freedom and no free app store and you got to rely on "homebrew"? It is wild that we are relying on "home" brew for making a machine from on the richest companies in the world palatable.

[g947o]

Since when do we use crowdsourced anecdotes to represent product quality?

[JCattheATM]

> but no one except Apple makes a laptop worth a damn.

That's pure nonsense. I'm a fan of the Asus ExpertBooks myself which seem to be largely ignored in these discussions. They weigh about 2 pounds, 15mm thick, they don't overheat, about 15 hours of battery, and pretty damn durable.

[throw393234]

I also bought a ThinkPad X1 back in 2015. Used it for 9 years with no issues at all. I installed Linux on it last year and still use it.

[whalesalad]

why did you create a throwaway account for this

[gorgonian]

Maybe they work for Apple

[bearjaws]

The Air is going to run laps around the X1, in literally every benchmark you can come up with besides "its not open source". I have that same processor in a much bulkier thinkpad and it thermal throttles instantly doing basic office multi-tasking, with the fan running constantly.

Also its made out of metal.

[bryanlarsen]

The X1 Carbon is getting updated to Panther Lake, and Panther Lake is getting competitive with the M5.

> in literally every benchmark you can come up

Nope, Panther Lake will win most gaming benchmarks. The M5 will win most others but not by "running laps around" levels.

[mjamesaustin]

At what power envelope? Intel chips can compete with M series chips, but usually at way higher power, which means fans running like a jet engine.

[bryanlarsen]

Similar power envelope. It depends on the laptop of course, but many Panther Lake laptops score comparably on battery life tests in reviews.

[bearjaws]

> score comparably on battery life tests

Until Windows leaves it in S0 state while its in your backpack :)

My Lenovo does this every week, such a joy.

[bryanlarsen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law

[nosioptar]

Thinkpads have track points, macs don't.

That benchmark is really important to me due to RSI. Track points save me a buttload of hand pain.

[zem]

interesting, I had to stop using my trackpoint because it was giving me rsi in my index finger. the track pad hasn't given me any issues.

[BoneShard]

Same here, had to stop using the trackpoint (after maybe 10-15 years of heavy usage). And macbook trackpads are awesome.

[ohhnoodont]

Same. I used to be ride-or-die for my Thinkpad Trackpoint™ keyboards, I even had an external USB one. Eventually I started to feel the RSI in the top of my hand. Haven't had any issues with a Macbook trackpad.

[MetaWhirledPeas]

It's all about not doing the same thing, whatever that same thing may be. I switch between trackball and mouse as each one gets a bit uncomfortable.

[zem]

I'm also convinced that trackpoints themselves are stiffer and less comfortable to use than they used to be in the older thinkpads

[BunsanSpace]

Ever since the T450 the trackpoint has been awful.

Can't replace the nob anymore either, as the convex knob was arguably the best

[doubled112]

What do you mean when you say you can't replace the knob?

It comes off on my T14s Gen 1 and the T14s Gen 5 that replaced it.

[acchow]

I had the opposite issue. Trackpoints stated hurting my hand because it requires significantly more force than the Mac's touchpad.

[mg]

What basic office tasks are that?

The last time I was excited about the performance of local computers was in the 90s I think.

Modern laptops are so insanely fast. Not sure if they are 2x, 10x or 100x faster than I need them to be. But I never hear fans. I never have to wait for the machine these days.

[esprehn]

Have you used a MacBook as a daily driver since the M chips came out?

[__patchbit__]

No. I'm looking to get one with 64GB memory for local AI models. The worry is the keyboard experience on the MBA isn't as good as the MacBook Pro.

[tracker1]

The keyboard and touchpad experience are nearly identical between the two... not nearly as good as old IBM Thinkpads used to be, but that's a trade with IMO the much better touchpad experience on Mac.

That said, I just don't think I can keep buying Apple hardware, just not a fan of the company... I only begrudgingly use Android as there isn't a reasonable, more open option.

I'll probably stick with my M1 air for personal use a couple more years then pass it on. My daughter is still using my now 13yo rMBP with 16gb/512gb. I wish the ram and storage upgrades on mac weren't so overpriced.

[Forgeties79]

At current rates they aren’t overpriced at all. Frankly I’m surprised we didn’t see a big increase in cost with this generation.

[Reason077]

I’ve used both extensively and there’s very little difference in the keyboards between an Air and a Pro.

The difference in displays (Pro much brighter) and size/weight (Air much lighter) are much more significant considerations, IMO.

[gozzoo]

It has always been like this. Apple's signature for their laptops is their aluminium body and people seem to like it.

[jermaustin1]

I like the aluminum body a lot. I'm not particularly clumsy, but each of my macbooks ends up with some fall damage at some point over the 5+ years that I have it.

When I used to be assigned a plastic Dell work laptop, I dropped one onto the carpeted floor of my office because I thought it was going into my padded sleeve of backpack and that cracked the case, and broke the screen. I've accidentally yoinked my MBA (last intel one they made) off my desk, and while it dented the body of it, nothing broke. That is now my drum computer, and it gets regularly pelted with drumsticks when my grip tires.

[Imustaskforhelp]

My father recently dropped my macbook air from the car essentially on concrete bricks.

It has just gotten a single dent for something less than 0.5 cm and its on the side (although this damage was done when the laptop was closed so some damage is just above the laptop's display aluminium shell.

To be honest, its barely visible and everything is working and there was no damage on display or anything else for what its worth.

I usually don't like apple but damn the macbook air is tiny and can take some damage.

Although I am still just a little sad about the damage because the laptop was perfect condition beforehand now that we talked about it but its incredibly better than any other laptop atleast with that thing in mind. Gonna use this laptop for a long time (M1 Air)

[cadamsdotcom]

Unfortunately dropping your laptop once in 5 years actually does make you too clumsy for a plastic laptop.

[mdasen]

As someone clumsy, I'm so grateful that my MacBook Air can take a beating. It has one slight dent of about 1mm in the 4 years I've had it and I definitely drop it or knock it off a desk or something a few times a year.

I'll take the extra weight of aluminum (0.3lb, 130g). Yes, someone might say the ThinkPad X1 Carbon is 14", but the 13" MacBook Air actually has a 13.6" screen.

If I were in the market for a PC laptop, I'd definitely take a look at the ThinkPad X1 Carbon, but I'm also not worried about the weight of my MacBook Air. The X1 Carbon Intel ones are on sale right now since Panther Lake will be a huge upgrade coming soon, but even on clearance they aren't cheap. An X1 Carbon with 32GB RAM and 1TB storage (Ultra 7 268V, the cheapest one due to the sale) will cost $1,679 while a similar MacBook Air will cost $1,699 - and the M5 has 48% better single-core performance and 56% better multi-core performance (Geekbench). A 16GB/512GB (Ultra 5 225U) X1 Carbon is $1,538 compared to $1,099 for a MacBook Air - and the M5 has a 74% single and multi core advantage there.

Panther Lake might narrow the performance gap, but early indicators don't seem like that's the case. Even the top of the line Ultra X9 388H sees the M5 with a 36% single-core advantage while the Ultra X9 388H gets 3% faster multi-core. And I'm not sure the higher wattage "H" processors work for something like an X1 Carbon.

The highest non-H Panther Lake processor (Ultra 7 365) sees the M5 get 51% better single-core and 58% better multi-core. Maybe we'll see better, but it looks like Intel isn't closing the gap in 2026.

[Imustaskforhelp]

Does it? In my case, it was my father who dropped my mac but luckily everything was all safe with tis but a scratch. So perhaps that can be taken into factor as well that its more than one variable.

That being said, I am pretty clumsy but I have never dropped any hardware except a dumb phone which I threw out a lot and it was so small and tiny but it never had any problem.

And then one day I dropped it from top just a little bit and let it drop/slide inside my bag (like a cushion) and that day it died. I recently asked someone about it and turns out that its battery got inflated.

[zarzavat]

It's essential for thermals. Without the unibody, it would throttle sooner and you'd lose performance.

[dijit]

The aluminium chassis cannot be used for heat dissipation without risk of harming users. Which is why there is a "macbook air peformance mod" to add thermal-interface-material (instead of thermal insulation) to turn the chassis into a heatsink.

It's not a heatsink by default.

[Reason077]

Not really. I did the thermal mod to my previous (M1) MacBook Air and it still didn’t get all that warm.

The Intel MacBook Pro I had before that one got far, far hotter - almost scalding hot if you really pushed it - without any modifications.

[tracker1]

The last generation of Intel Macbooks was so bad... the i9 I was assigned from my job at the time would constantly go in and out of thermal throttling, making the whole experience effectively useless... It was also so locked down, I couldn't apply any mods to be able to underclock/volt the thing to something reasonable.

I really do hope that Linux becomes an option in more workplaces without being too locked down for developers.

[nagisa]

Air has no thermal connection to the chassis for the purpose of making it safe to have in contact with skin.

People have been modding theirs to make this contact, though. And been getting a significant performance boost out of it.

[zarzavat]

I believe we are talking about slightly different things. Yes if they thermally coupled the body to the processor, then a small patch of the body would get very hot, burning the user.

However, the fact that the aluminum gets hot during prolonged use means that it is acting as a heat sink and cooling the CPU compared to a body made of plastic. Thermodynamics, it's the law!

[delfinom]

>However, the fact that the aluminum gets hot during prolonged use means that it is acting as a heat sink and cooling the CPU compared to a body made of plastic. Thermodynamics, it's the law!

Not really. It's picking up "stray heat" that is radiated from the copper heatsink inside and conduction from the air in the fan system. It does not improve cooling the processor in any kind of manner. If it were plastic, the plastic would get warm too. Maybe it'll be a 2 degree difference.

Direct contact or bust.

[everforward]

It should improve ambient temperatures inside the body, allowing for more heat transfer.

It might be marginal, though.

[dontlaugh]

It does actually help. All heat radiated into the aluminium isn’t in the copper, so makes it to the environment. The copper remains cooler overall.

[geerlingguy]

The original Air lineup was thinner in the front and seemed a little lighter. The thicker front on newer airs gives more battery life, but I'm not a fan of it.

[gizajob]

The thinness at the front was a bit of a hack though wasn’t it? So Steve Jobs could make it look good in photographs. I’d take the extra battery life any day.

[snowwrestler]

The final version of the “wedge” Air case was an amazing piece of physical design. The lid had a large-radius complex curve that perfectly controlled reflections. The bottom case had a curve that made it look like the machine was hovering above the desktop from almost any angle. Calling that a “hack” is sort of like calling it a “hack” that a Ferrari looks fast even when it’s parked.

The new designs are overtly boringly utilitarian. I would say they intentionally look ugly. I guess this must have been intended as a marketing signal.

And it seems like it’s working since you think the new design delivers better battery life. It doesn’t! The 13-inch M1, M2, M3, M4, and M5 MacBook Airs are all specced for 18 hours of battery life.

[dormento]

I think its a matter of the chonkers feeling like you're getting what you're paying for. "This thing is so expensive! WHY is it so thin?"

Of course the zeitgeist keeps changing and what made sense yesterday might look like madness for those that aren't following things closely. As for myself, I very much prefer "slightly chonkier, but better heat dissipation" (coming from owning an intel mb pro and using it on my lap often).

[davio]

I have the M1 MBA and M5 MBP. The wedge MBA feels noticeably thinner and the MBP feels kind of chonky in comparison. It's a bigger difference moving them one-handed than the specs would indicate.

[geerlingguy]

Exactly this. And it makes sliding it in and out of bags and laptop sleeves so much easier.

[epistasis]

I'm in the same boat. I have one of the original M1 MacBook airs, and the thicker front feels like overall a downgrade in hardware. Going up to higher ram amounts might be good for some of my datasets, but it's not needed for any software I run.

So I guess I'll wait for the next cycle and hope they return to the "Air" idea again.

[actionfromafar]

I like the touchpad. Is there any competitor which is as good and exact? I noticed in Linux, it's not as exact.

[criddell]

Thinkpad touchpads are mediocre at best. Dell’s are a little worse than that IMHO.

I don’t understand why other laptop manufacturers don’t copy the Apple trackpad.

[bornfreddy]

I liked Dell one, loved ThinkPad, and hate MBP trackpad. I guess it's a matter of taste?

[gozzoo]

I have Lenovo laptop with quite mediocre touchpad. I got used to use gestures instead of clicking and it works great for me.

[donkyrf]

If anybody else wondered about figures:

13.6 inch 2560x1664 screen, 1.23kg (13" Mac)

14.0 inch 1920x1200 screen, 0.98kg (14" Thinkpad)

[zeusly]

It comes with a 2880 x 1800 OLED

[mikestew]

As long as your wallet “comes with” an extra $2000 over the MBA.

(EDIT: ninja’d, I see.)

[jamiek88]

The $3000 version does. The air is $1000

[happyopossum]

> The 13 inch version is heavier than a ThinkPad X1 Carbon

And costs ~800 more for 16Gb/512 with a slower CPU and worse battery life.

As someone who spends his life on the road with a laptop, I strongly feel that anything that works for you under 3lbs is the sweet spot. The difference between 2.2 and 2.7lbs is miniscule in the grand scheme of my backpack.

[open-sesame]

But then you'd have to have a plasticky thinkpad with half the screen resolution...

[zeusly]

It comes with a 2880 x 1800 120Hz OLED

[open-sesame]

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/t...

For an RRP of £3,259.99?

Compare that to the base 512GB, 16GB memory macbook air @ £1099.

The next comparable X1 Carbon I can find is: https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/t...

RRP: £1,900.00 with this crappy display: 14" WUXGA (1920 x 1200), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, 100%sRGB, 400 nits, 60 Hz

[devilbunny]

I really like my X1 Carbon gen 7, aside from the bizarre Ethernet "port" (it has built-in Ethernet, but they didn't have room for RJ45, so instead of just telling you to buy a USB one it's on a dongle that blocks one of its two USB-C ports when plugged in, eliminating the advantage of "doesn't use a USB port"). But aside from fantastic Linux support, it's got little to recommend it over a similar-vintage MBA, which has a much better look and feel.

[usagisushi]

Same here. If the rumored A18 Pro MacBook stays under 1kg, it would be very compelling.

Regarding lightweight laptops, the Fujitsu FMV Note U series (14-inch) weighs only 634g-917g with Arrow Lake 255H and a replaceable battery.

[jjtheblunt]

i run fedora and arch on my m2 air, via the UTM app which wraps Apple Silicon hypervisor, and it's _fantastic_.

[godelski]

I'm in the same boat and finding it disappointing.

For people saying this machine is so much faster, I don't care. My situation isn't the norm, but we're on HN. I have a powerful desktop that's my main compute machine and my laptop is a terminal. I need a web browser, whatever corporate shovelware I need, and a ssh connection (and tailscale). If I wanted to do real work locally I wouldn't be getting an Air.

While realizing I'm not the typical user, it's not like the typical Air user needs much compute anyways. The general public just uses web browsers.

Though one thing I'd love is if they could add just a little distance between the keyboard and screen so my screen doesn't get so dirty constantly... doesn't anyone use lotion at Apple?

[jimbokun]

There are a ton of rumors a much cheaper MBA is about to be announced.

[madeofpalk]

Is Linux normally heavier?

[Whatarethese]

Carbon fiber vs aluminum.

[AISnakeOil]

What I actually like about Apple products is the heft. They feel premium and the heaviness contributes a lot to the premium feel.

I tried a ThinkPad X1 Carbon as well, it felt like a toy.

[eru]

I'm not sure you want heaviness in a laptop?