[palmotea]

> In other words, it is largely a propaganda push by the right.

Who cares? It works, and why does it work?

I tell you why: it works because the Democrats give them the ammunition.

Edit: I see you edited the line I quoted to:

> In other words, it is largely a moral panic manufactured by the right. If democrats give in, the right will concoct a new one, ad infinitum, until democrats and republicans are indistinguishable.

I don't think that's true, it's just a story to discourage effective change to keep some faction happy.

Democrats used to be able to win in so-called red states, because they used to be able to adapt to local conditions. Following your line of thinking just means they'll keep losing.

[abandonliberty]

Abortion used to be a Catholic issue until a Republican strategist saw an opportunity.

The point is to get citizens fighting each other on things that are personally important so we're too busy to fight for things that are nationally important, like corruption or the decay of democracy.

Both parties suck because the system is broken, and both parties benefit from perpetuating it -- along with those who fund them.

[UncleMeat]

When North Carolina passed the first bathroom bill in 2016, what should have happened in your mind?

[tastyface]

Well, I'll just say this: I was a "vote blue no matter who" voter following Trump 1, but after seeing the complete limpness of democratic leadership in Trump's proto-fascist America, I'm not sure I could actually stomach voting for a politician like Newsom, who basically quacks like a republican circa 10 years ago. What would be the point? When ICE is pulling my neighbors from their homes, will he step in to protect them? When the executive order gets signed to federalize polling stations, will he bother to do anything about it? I am far from the only person who feels this way.

If democrats acquiesce to republicans, they will likely lose even more people than they already have while gaining absolutely no one from the maga camp. I think the real strat is to go full Mamdani across the board. Unapologetic, compassionate leftism focused on the economy and quality of life; no one thrown under the bus as a cynical ploy to scrap together a few undecided votes.

[palmotea]

> Well, I'll just say this: I was a "vote blue no matter who" voter following Trump 1, but after seeing the complete limpness of democratic leadership in Trump's proto-fascist America, I'm not sure I could actually stomach voting for a someone like Newsom, who is basically a republican circa 10 years ago. I am far from the only person who feels this way.

It's not about who you would vote for.

> If the democrats acquiesce to the republicans, they will likely lose even more people than they already have, while gaining absolutely no one from the maga camp. I think the real strat is to go full Mamdani across the board. Unapologetic, compassionate leftism.

To be perfectly honest: I don't think you have the strategic sense to productively participate on a topic this. I kinda get the impression you're going for wish fulfillment.

You're not going to get it all. If you try to get it all, you'll lose. Your wish fulfillment candidate could win parts of California and New York, but those aren't the places you need to think about. Think about not crashing and burning in a Nebraska Senate race.

[tastyface]

Why do you think you have the strategic sense to productively participate on a topic like this? Who even are you? What are your sources?

As for me, I look at polling results almost every day. My sense is that nothing I said is extraordinarily controversial among the voters who actually matter. People care about the economy, period. Outside of hardcore MAGA enclaves -- which will never change their vote -- the culture war bullshit is massively unpopular.

[palmotea]

> Why do you think you have the strategic sense to productively participate on a topic like this?

In short: I'm talking about compromises, not fantasies of partisan purity.

> Who even are you? What are your sources?

Someone who has lived in places where Democrats used to win, but no longer do.

[fzeroracer]

'Compromise' is strictly just code for becoming Republican, and I'm not going to vote for a Republican.

A great example of this is abortion, where for years Democrats did have 'moderate' positions on abortion. The end result has been taking away people's rights and stomping on any notion of any abortion.

Compromise is how we got to here in the first place, with feckless politicians unable to have any sort of spine and gradually shrinking the amount of constituents they'll fight for.

[palmotea]

> 'Compromise' is strictly just code for becoming Republican, and I'm not going to vote for a Republican.

No it doesn't, and thinking that was shows the lack of "strategic sense to productively participate on a topic this." You're position basically seems like: give me everything I want, even if it's a losing platform.

> A great example of this is abortion, where for years Democrats did have 'moderate' positions on abortion. The end result has been taking away people's rights and stomping on any notion of any abortion.

They didn't moderate enough, where they needed to moderate. I know for a fact Democrats have lost Senate races in "red" states, at least in part, because the candidate couldn't take a clear pro-life position.

They were never going to get a pro-choice person there, but what else did they lose by insisting that's the only kind of person they'd accept?

> Compromise is how we got to here in the first place, with feckless politicians unable to have any sort of spine and gradually shrinking the amount of constituents they'll fight for.

Lack of compromise is precisely what leads to "gradually shrinking the amount of constituents they'll fight for." You're saying: if you're not 100% for everything we stand for, we won't represent you.

[Jensson]

> The end result has been taking away people's rights and stomping on any notion of any abortion.

Abortion is allowed just like in the EU, some member states in both do ban it but USA and EU doesn't.