[staticassertion]

Look, I really don't care to explain this. You can reject brute contingencies, as I said. If you want to do so, great. Just don't pretend that it's indefensible, your view doesn't even align with the majority of scientists.

None of your conclusions actually follow from this, which you would be welcome to explore on your own. You can learn why conservation can be held as true while also allowing for brute contingencies. As the leading cosmologists I've cited do.

No, it's not magic. You just don't know what you're talking about. Only you can fix that.

[Nevermark]

Thanks for you patience. I wrote way too much. And have re-read what you wrote and the article.

> It is not incomplete to say that something does not require explanation

> Values of physical constants of nature

> the most popular choice was that the constants are considered brute facts and thus require no exotic explanation

So yes, I deny the coherence of the concept of "brute facts".

If something is determined, something determined it. Some mechanism, constraint, context, structure, ... Perhaps we don't have the right word or connotations, but something.

A specific from a choice is a specific relation. That relation exists, as exemplified by our encountering the specific. Our experience of coming across the specific is not extricable from that specific's consistent connection to the rest of reality. That consistency has some basis, or there would be inconsistency.

A "maintaining" mechanism for an arbitrary consistency doesn't work, because that just pushes the choice of the specific that is maintained into the maintainer, which makes it more than a maintainer.

I can believe in things we will never be able to explain, as a result of observability limitations imposed on us by local physics. Eternal ignorance for any reason is always a practical possibility.

I can believe in undetermined things, which appear with each possibility, where we only experience one, because in the product of possibilities each plays out separately.

That would be the closest I could come to a "brute fact". Because it is in fact completely determined. The specific was not uniquely chosen, because the specific is not unique. Information is conserved, no explanation of each specific is needed. Even though each specific will behave as unique, across each possibility respectively, because differing specifics interact with a disjoint relation. The disjoint relation is the operating condition creating a localization of choice.

People invent ways to explain away persistence ignorance, instead accepting it, like a fractal attractor, over and over. The psychological need to resolve the dissonance, when encountering challenges to investigation that are potentially insurmountable. And then some "way" of sweeping away the lack of explanation gets translated into a proposed lack of reasons, and given a name and connotations. But never an explanation or reason for itself. It is always faith based. The existence or principle of brute facts, must remain meta-brute facts themselves. All untestable.

Scientists can "believe" that is a valid viewpoint. But inherently cannot every demonstrate any evidence for it.

The same reasoning, with different connotations and contexts, is rejected over and over by scientists. Mystical or religious connotations doom those different "versions". But stated in a sciency way, the same situation becomes palatable to some or many. But it doesn't become more coherent by virtue of being the "physics" version of "explanation" by acceptance of non-explanation.

[staticassertion]

> So yes, I deny the coherence of the concept of "brute facts".

Cool, that is fine. I deny lots of things as well. It's a position you can hold.

> If something is determined, something determined it.

That's fine but you'll likely find yourself in an infinite regress. That's a cost you'll have to take on under your theory.

> People invent ways to explain away our ignorance of the reasons behind things, instead of accepting the reality of ignorance, almost like an attractor fractal pattern, over and over.

That's not what's happening here. These concepts are pretty rigorously discussed and debated, it's certainly not a "cop out" - it's a metaphysical cost to your world view that you have to justify.

> Scientists can "believe" that is a valid viewpoint. But inherently cannot every demonstrate any evidence for it.

You've already said that you don't believe all things can be proven via evidence, so that's fine.

But it's incorrect to say that there is no evidence for the position. There are many arguments to support the view of brute facts or brute contingencies. One example is that it seems to not accept them would lead to infinite regress, which many people have reasons to reject as well. These are well evidenced positions, that is why so many scientists believe in them.

This has nothing to do with religion or mysticism. There is nothing about this that requires "magic". Many of our most advanced cosmological models support this view. You are just not aware of this, and so it sounds like magic, but it isn't. If you think it is then I would just suggest that you learn more about it, there are many scientists and philosophers writing on the topic and I'm sure quite a few youtube videos on the topic.

[Nevermark]

[DELETED]

Edit: Sorry didn't see you had already replied.

Zero information constraints: Specifics only as fully determined, full coverage of undetermined specifics, conservation of information. These axioms, unlike most, impose a lack of external information not just as a desirable property, but harness them as a tautological universal constraint. Unlike most axioms, which are imposed information themselves.

[staticassertion]

> Infinite regress is avoided by co-constraints, such as consistency and conservation.

You have to explain these constraints if you don't want them to be brute.

edit: > Edit: Sorry didn't see you had already replied.

It's cool. I don't understand the distinction you're trying to draw here about "zero information constraints".

edit: > but harness them as a tautological universal constraint.

This just sounds like a brute contingent fact. It's almost the definition of a brute contingency, as far as I can tell.

[Nevermark]

The "constraint" that a complete description of reality doesn't require external information, isn't a brute contingent, it is a tautology. One that can be leveraged as an axiom we get for free.

It has many forms. One is, nothing can be created (no external source), or destroyed (no external dump), so any local structures can be transformed, but must be conserved in some way. Transforms must be reversible. We now have the necessity for a law of conservation as a "for-free" requirement, as a result of no external information/interaction.

Local zero information constraints:

No specific exists, except those that are completely determined. Anything else would require external information. This is a law of fully determined intersection.

Anything not completely specified, must exist in all its disjoint alternatives. This is a law of fully exhausted union.

Think of the exhaustive superpositions (unions) over all possible conserving interactions (intersections) in quantum mechanics. A real "local physics" example of this principle.

Cancellation is caused by conservation. Duals that can be generated must be reducible. And it is cancellation of duals that create the non-trivial distributions that superposition and entanglement produce, out of otherwise a neutral exhaustion of possibilities. Instead of noise or uniformity, we get structure.

This all comes from "no external information or interaction".

It turns out, that tautology is far from a trivial constraint. I believe there will only be one structure that will meet that requirement. And its uniqueness will be another manifestation of no external information, no external choice. Uniqueness doesn't require choice.

In fact it is a very active constraint. Try to come up with a form in which everything is either determined, or exhaustively covered, and always locally conserved (i.e. all transforms are fully and exactly reversible). It will be a challenge! Exactly what we want. But you can fit a lot of our current physics in as consistent pieces. Like quantum mechanics. And historically, we have understood the universe better every time we have generalized or unified laws of conservation.

Superposition is simply conservation of information across disjoint conserving intersections. It doesn't collapse, because that would require external or created or "just is" information. Which besides being incoherent (in my opinion), would throw away the only "free axioms" we have as an explanation for why any structure exists at all. Conservation, closure, uniqueness.

[staticassertion]

I'm confused because you seem to be using the term tautology totally incorrectly. Your post is very confusing for this reason, because you're very clearly just appealing to a brute contingent fact, if not now multiple brute contingent facts.

edit: Okay, I think I am sort of getting what you're saying about tautologies but it's wrong. Either way, I don't think it matters much. You can just deny brute facts, I have no problem with that. I'm just saying you shouldn't assert that brute facts don't exist as if that's the standard position.