[abustamam]

The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us.

So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.

[seanhunter]

It obviously depends on where you live. In my country you certainly con choose a new electric company. I mention that because we really should use consumer choice to overcome these types of problems where we can. Ie if you can switch to a bank/electricity provider/whatever that has a less terrible app it’s really good to do so.

[abustamam]

I agree on principle. I'm not sure if everywhere in the US is like this, but everywhere I've lived in California basically had a monopolistic electric and gas provider.

For things where we do have a choice, yes I agree.

[abighamb]

Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply.

Send a letter like that certified. It gets attention, and the time to write and mail a check really isn't, if you batch your bills, more than using an app.

We do have ways to push their inconvenience back on them.

[safety1st]

It is great that you have the right in your jurisdiction to do that. Where I am, they just shut off your power if you don't pay.

It's a big and hairy world out there. Having lived on three continents and traveled to some pretty wild places, I always get a kick out of seeing which rights people have and assume that the rest of the world also has.

[abustamam]

This only works if the company cares though.

[abighamb]

This a pretty general recipe to make a company care.

A Professional letter letting them know that you know your rights, and that they know your rights (Them getting your letter is your proof of that) is what the beginning of someone losing his bonus for a compliance incident looks like.

Companies don't care about you, or even shareholders, they care about the incentives of leadership.

[Forgeties79]

Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that “just works” because it solves the problem now.

We’ve gotten to the point where unfortunately it is a luxury to fight for your privacy and consumer rights.

[bornfreddy]

Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.

[Forgeties79]

Yes that is correct. So what do you suggest people do? What is a realistic way to move the needle? Because I can tell you now that (as I detailed in another comment) asking someone to change their banks, utilities, etc. to accommodate their smartphone choice is not a serious suggestion, nor is asking everyone to wage war with all the services they engage with. They’re simply not going to do it no matter how many passionate speeches or flippant comments you throw out there. They’re going to buy the thing that solves the immediate problem of not having access to critical services in their lives. If their amazing open source phone can’t pay their bills, it’s going in the bin.

To be clear I want the same thing you do. But just going “do it it’s important” is not going to make it happen.

[abustamam]

Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care.

Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.

[bornfreddy]

> It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news.

Do they? News is usually the first thing that is replaced by propaganda.

But yes, everyone chooses the battles they wish to fight. None are easy.

[abustamam]

Perhaps, but a recent example is ICE in Minnesota. The administration tried its best to spin it to match its propaganda but many people saw through it.

[JCattheATM]

> Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s).

They do, they just don't want to. Typing a short letter and mailing it is very little effort. Less so with AI these days.

[Forgeties79]

An AI generated letter isn’t going to get my utility company to drop their explicitly chosen practice of blocking VPN’s.

These aren’t oversights, these are deliberate practices.

[JCattheATM]

'AI generated' is irrelevant here, they wouldn't know and it's just a time saver in response to the 'people don't have enough time' excuse.

That's a weird one though, if you have alternatives you could always switch.

[abustamam]

Not sure where you live but in much of California, there are no alternatives for most utilities. Water, gas, electric often only have one singular provider in many regions.

[Forgeties79]

My only alternative is to not have natural gas