[queenkjuul]

I get where you're coming from. Every US administration has been corrupt, flaunted the constitution, started illegal wars (at least in the last 100 years or so)

It does kind of drive me nuts that people don't remember Bush very well, and give Obama and Biden passes on their own crimes.

That said, i do honestly believe that Trump has taken the level of corruption and abject cruelty to a new level. But this was inevitable; both parties have spent 50 years building this reality. I won't be surprised when the next Democrat also deports millions and starts illegal wars.

[ericmay]

I don't disagree with you, in general. My point here only was that I don't think the specific language used is correct. For me a turning point would be like, the Japanese declaring war on the United States and attacking Pearl Harbor, or Napoleon being defeated by the Duke, or the French Revolution, or something more along those lines. Bombing Iran (we've done stuff like that before), arresting Maduro - Noriega (sp?), federal vs state standoffs - yep done that before. Largely this is the routine mess of democracy, and it's heightened and more exposed because it's the United States of America and also because our republic has 340 million people from all over the world - there's going to be some differences of opinion.

Of course "this time" can be different for these things but I'm not sure I've seen anything I'd construe as a turning point or significant change or anything quite like that.