[AlecSchueler]

I think the point being made is that there's wider fallout than just what's directly affected. If you go to Syria and ask Syrians how they feel about the affects on the wider region they might not so readily agree. Or even ask Iraqis in the border region who lived through ISIS rule.

[baxtr]

I got the point.

I’m challenging the causal chain. I don’t think anyone would agree that the crusades in the Middle Ages caused the current state of the Middle East.

There is no way you can prove one or the other side. We can’t do controlled experiments with other worlds.

So it’s all guesswork. That’s why I’m challenging. I think that things are much less causally connected as people want to believe.

[bonsai_spool]

> I don’t think anyone would agree that the crusades in the Middle Ages caused the current state of the Middle East.

I think the Crusades have not yet ended…

And it is not clear that fewer people died following the US interventions than would have had Iraq been left to its own.

[padjo]

Hegseth certainly doesn't given his book title

[627467]

Why go back 100s of years for explanations when 2003 is just over 20 years ago?

[baxtr]

You see that’s exactly my point.

If you can go back 20 years, you can do that 5 times and end up at 100.