[jachee]

Okay, if you have big actions to show off, then show us how it’s done.

You step up and start shooting at the heartless monsters running the first (US armed forces) and second (ICE) most well-funded militaries in the world. Go ahead. We’ll be right there behind you.

(Yeah, I’m burning some hn karma for this, I imagine.)

[khalic]

Thank you for giving an example of what I’m talking about. You’re there fantasising about armed conflict when there are a million different actions one can take.

But nope, only words, words and more words.

[roryirvine]

It's part of the dismal/pathetic form of American exceptionalism that's taken root in the last decade.

"We mustn't consider dealing with problem x because it wasn't considered important by our founding fathers"

"China are catching up, so we need to cower behind a tariff wall rather than risk losing an open competition"

"Other countries with similar legal systems have successfully reformed their supreme courts, but there's nothing we can learn from them"

"We shouldn't constrain rogue leaders because of, er, something to do with King George III"

...and now "we can't push back against the regime, because they'll shoot us if we do".

It's so weird - a huge shift in such a short period of time. As an outsider who wishes America well, it's really sad to see.

[graemep]

None of this is entirely new. Americans have always fetishised their constitution or founding fathers. While there has been an era of free trade, that is over, and I think the west in general is in a difficult position (ultimately as a result of believing the "end of history" BS).

As for getting shot, while the chance of getting shot in the US for opposing the government is much higher than in similar circumstances in somewhere like the UK (which is far from perfect - but rarely actually shoots people), its also much, much lower than in Iran or China or Saudi Arabia.

Pushing back against the US government is a lot safer than taking part in something like the 2022 protests that ousted the Sri Lankan government, and lots of normally apolitical people took part in that (which was why it succeeded).

[fdsjgfklsfd]

The Constitution and Founding Fathers are pretty great compared to what we have now.

"At this point, Elbridge Gerry objected to Butler’s earlier-raised proposition that the clause be shifted to a presidential power. Gerry remarked that he never expected to hear in a republic a motion to empower the Executive alone to declare war."

"What is called a republic is not any particular form of government. It is wholly characteristical of the purport, matter or object for which government ought to be instituted, and on which it is to be employed … in this sense it is naturally opposed to the word monarchy, which … means arbitrary power in an individual person; in the exercise of which, himself, and not the res-publica, is the object."

[murphyslaw]

I believe that the biggest problem in the US is the constitution. It's next to impossible to change so the only way to fix it is replacing it entirely with a new one. But good luck with that...

[fdsjgfklsfd]

The current biggest problem in the US is that the President is violating the Constitution with impunity

[quantified]

Actions that are words aren't much of an action.

[jasonlotito]

> only words, words and more words.

Your ignorance of reality does not define reality.

[jachee]

It’s 5am on a Saturday. What millions of actions do you suggest, O just-as-wordy-yet-holier-than-thou HN commentor?

[khalic]

Assuming this is in good faith: think about it yourself, are you seriously waiting for people to tell you what to do? Use your critical thinking skills, read history about similar situations. If you can't, find someone OFFLINE that will. And don't go telling your plans on the web.

[_bohm]

Get organized. Join a mass movement, a local group or a union. There are many people doing things. Stop complaining then excusing yourself for not being one of them.

[agmater]

https://commonslibrary.org/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/ here's some to get you started

[jachee]

The first 17 of those are all variations on “make words”. :P

[lejalv]

Do you know how the deadliest conflict of the XXth century eventually came to be? The words of one Adolf Hitler.

Don't dismiss words: they are the necessary link between (individual) thoughts and collective deeds.

PS. Trump also got there with words: speeches, slogans, imprecations

[jachee]

I’m not the one saying “you lot only do words”, this one is:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47193041

[xorcist]

No one can do everything but everyone can do something.

If you are in law enforcement, do not follow clearly unlawful orders. The president is not your boss. This is a functioning democracy.

If you are a librarian, do not hide otherwise lawful books that the current administration dislikes.

If you are in logistics, do not collect obviously unconstitutional taxes. Make sure to challenge them in courts first.

If you are in a university, stick to what is true and scientifically sound. Do not hide inconvenient truths.

If you are a baker, do not refuse to make a rainbow colored cake just because you are worried what the people wearing metaphorically brown shirts might say.

The list goes on and on and on. This has been well documented throughout history. Fascism needs a seed to thrive, and that seed is people complying in advance. Not with actual laws, but with the idea what direction the law will take, just because it's easier for them. People not helping other people because immigration is not in vogue right now and who knows what the neighbors might say.

[krapp]

It's just weird that whenever a shooting happens anywhere else in the world, or they pass some draconian surveillance law, Americans criticize that country for not having a Second Amendment and rising up in violence against their government.

And that whenever a mass shooting happens in the US, Americans reassure themselves that gun violence is a price worth paying for the Second Amendment. And there is a run on pawn shops and gun stores because mass shootings are the best form of advertising America's billion dollar gun lobby has.

And that Americans will wax poetic about watering the Tree of Liberty with the Blood of Tyrants and Patriots any time gun control comes up, because they believe their Second Amendment is an absolute vouchsafe against tyranny and because of that, they and they alone are the only truly free country.

And they were willing to rise up in Portland.

And they were willing to rise up during COVID.

And they were willing to rise up on Jan 6th.

And they're willing to shoot up schools and black churches and gay nightclubs and mosques so often it no longer makes the news.

But now, with blatant and undeniable tyranny in their face and shooting them dead in the streets... nothing.

Not that violence would necessarily be productive (although historically speaking no social or political progress happens without it)... but it's weird that the most violent society in human history, born of genocide and bathed in blood, with more guns than people and gun violence enshrined as its second most important and fundamental virtue, the land of "give me liberty or give me death" is all of a sudden the most timid.

Like goddamn throw a Molotov cocktail or something.

[cityofdelusion]

This is just a (bad) caricature of Americans, it’s not even very accurate of rural Americana or even Deep South rural. Most Americans just wake up, go to work, feed the kids, go to bed until they die, like most any other “first world” nation.

[kelvinjps10]

That's true but when specifically talking about gun ban laws they said it shouldn't be done because of being able to oppose a tyrannical government

[lostlogin]

You’ll find people here who are in America and are surprised by a comment like yours. They have guns, they don’t read the news and aren’t troubled by what’s occurring.

[iancmceachern]

Most people who own guns here view them as tools, not weapons. Tools to get food with, tools to defend their flock with, tools. Taking then away would be like taking away a shovel.

[krapp]

It's the image America has always projected of itself - aggressive and defiant, a nation of cowboys with Bibles in one hand and six-shooters in the other, rebels against any authority but God. I live in the South and have all of my life. I've had countless arguments with gun owners and gun rights people, and I know the arguments they use, and how proud they are of the image.

You're making the mistake of assuming an attribute of a culture cannot be accurate unless it's 100% accurate about every member.

I think it's perfectly valid to call Americans to the carpet when they won't live up to their stated principles, if only because of how obnoxious they've been about their own sense of exceptionalism, and how their guns serve as an absolute vouchsafe against tyranny.

History is going to note that the only times Americans attempted a revolution against their government was first in defense of slavery and second in defense of fascism, and that isn't a good look. Replying with #notallamericans doesn't help.

edit: OK partial mea culpa as the US had anti-slavery revolts[0], but the two events that will stand out for their lasting impact and scope are the Civil War and Jan. 6th. The Revolutionary War doesn't count because they were British at the time.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_rebellion_and_resistance...