[peyton]

Tim gave Trump the paper weight.

Steve met once with Obama and complained about the fact Obama did not ask for the meeting personally, that it was too hard to build factories in America, and that teachers unions were kneecapping the American education system.

All signs point to Trump and Jobs becoming thick-as-thieves. Sorry.

[macintux]

Jobs to Murdoch:

> “The axis today is not liberal and conservative, the axis is constructive-destructive, and you’ve cast your lot with the destructive people. Fox has become an incredibly destructive force in our society. You can be better, and this is going to be your legacy if you’re not careful.”

[1986]

Yeah, we're talking about the guy who leased a new car every 6 months in order to avoid having to put a license plate on it, and then parked it in handicap spots, right? Absolute same "rules for thee, not for me" energy

[WillAdams]

This earned a story at folklore.org

https://folklore.org/Handicapped.html

[joe_mamba]

>All signs point to Trump and Jobs becoming thick-as-thieves. Sorry.

Yep, this. We're talking about a guy who basically abandoned his biological daughter, had his stuff manufactured by slave labor in factories with suicide nets to save costs and increase shareholder value, and GP imagines Steve Jobs as this leftist freedom fighter that would fight Trump instead of work together with him to increase profits even further. People's delul, historical revisionism of people who were just cutthroat unscrupulous businessmen at the end of the day, saddens me.

We can agree has was good at business, without trying to whitewash him as some humanitarian saint.

Don't worship people you never knew personally as some sort of heroes because you never know. For all we know he could have been a client on some else's island, like Steven Hawking.

[SpaceManNabs]

I rarely see tech hero worship pushback on here. I hope to see more of it.

We are all human after all.

[scottyah]

There's always plenty of pushback everywhere, all the social media apps are full of critics and hate on anyone who does anything in the world mercilessly. I like coming here to see people admire other people who worked hard to create something that made society better, and not spend as much time criticizing every little wrong thing they did.

[joe_mamba]

>create something that made society better,

How is society better off thanks to Steve Jobs? Are we better off now with everyone addicted to their phones for dopamine hits?

>not spend as much time criticizing every little wrong thing they did.

Using slave labor, creating mass addiction and environmental destruction via planned obsolescence, is a "little thing" to you?

[scottyah]

Are you declaring Steve Jobs a God? Did he create all the apps you're addicted to or a wonderful tool that lets you access almost all of humanities history, can connect you with loved ones across the world in real-time, play music, movies, it's a compass, a map, etc. You can use a hammer to create or kill, and you blame the blacksmith for the dead.

You use slave labor everyday, so you don't have much wiggle room to judge.

[joe_mamba]

>You use slave labor everyday, so you don't have much wiggle room to judge.

I didn't use slave labor to become a billionaire and people don't worship me.

Unlike you I don't virtue signal nor bootlick CEOs. I see the world as it truly is.

[Teever]

'Tech hero worship' is a gross misrepresentation of my comment and I'm not sure how you could draw that conclusion from a comment that used words like "asshole" and "vindictive" to describe Steve Jobs.

[quesera]

You are very wrong about Steve Jobs.

It's easy to be wrong about Jobs, because he was iconoclastic and idiosyncratic. And very very public.

And he did some personally, individually, shameful things. Especially in his 20s when he hadn't learned how to be an adult, much less a billionaire. And the latter protected him from needing to be the former for a while!

But if you believe for a second that Jobs would have tolerated Trump's wholesale ignorance and cruelty, you are making a huge mistake of understanding. That was never in Steve Jobs' personality -- in fact he was very outspoken about the excesses of power over people.

He was an anti-establishment Californian by birth, not a xenophobic RealAmerican™. These streams do not cross. If you do not understand the difference, you cannot possibly understand Steve Jobs.

[bigyabai]

This comment confuses me. You call Jobs idiosyncratic, but then try to backwards-justify his political stance with stereotypes about anti-establishment politics and Californian ideals. What makes you convinced that he'd resist neoreactionary politicking any better than Cook?

Jobs was fickle, I agree with you there. I just don't think that a fickle iconoclast would last more than two weeks fighting against Trump, especially if he was threatened with an FTC antitrust probe. The only difference with Cook is that he's not as coy, and recognized that there was no way for a monopoly like Apple to fight the fed and win. Trump can disembowel Apple's profit margins, and neither Cook nor Jobs nor Jesus of Nazarath could convince the shareholders that morality is worth more than $AAPL. 2016 Jobs would be retired by the board of directors before he even threatened to make a conscientious objection, reality distortion be damned.

I have no love for the sitting administration, but it is a fantasy to pretend that a FAANG business could resist federal coercion. Just because Apple enjoys a moral halo-effect does not mean they're better positioned than Microsoft or AWS to do the "right" thing. Apple's inability to prosecute NSO Group is a recurring example of how heavily the US can muzzle them.

[quesera]

I'm saying that personality-wise, Jobs would absolutely not have any tolerance whatsoever for Trumpism and its associated bozos.

Of course Apple would observe US law.

But the comment I responded to was calling Jobs a monster and likely pedophile. This is unhinged and ugly.

[frumplestlatz]

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here, can reasonably make such a claim.

[quesera]

Which claim? That Jobs was not a monster or pedophile? I'm on absolutely solid ground there.

Assuming you mean whether Jobs would intensely dislike Trump, then -- what can I say? You clearly don't know anything about the guy and that's fine. But if you doubt it, you're wrong.

We were far from personal confidantes, but I had several candid conversations with him over the decades. His personal politics were never in doubt, or far from the surface. He held a special revulsion for warmongering, dishonest, scapegoating, and authoritarian-leaning US candidates and administrations.

He was always at least a bit frustrated with US economic policy. He would abhor Trump for all of the above reasons and more.

[bigyabai]

I'd say that personality-wise, you probably don't know Jobs well enough to serve as a character witness. I'm not aware of any recorded interview where he explains how far he'd go to defend his business from unfair government treatment. He never saw a preview of the 2016 election or cast a ballot in the vote. He didn't live the interceding years leading up to the election, or form an opinion on the politics dominating the polls.

I think Jobs would have been blindsided by Trump just as much as we all were. On a personal level I can believe that he's offended just like Cook is. But neither Cook nor Jobs' conscience has really ever stopped them from making a profitable business decision that they can take credit for. Even if it means building a meaningless gold trophy or somesuch, to appease the ego in charge.

[quesera]

I agree that he'd have been blindsided like the rest of us. And I agree that he would have put Apple first. That was never a part of my point though.

Jobs had a very strong personality and very strong opinions. Also a good human moral compass, at least in his adulthood.

I admit that I am extrapolating from his thoughts on previous administrations, but I will confidently assert that there is no part of Jobs being that would approve of what's going on today. The man was not ThielMuskAndreesenEllisonEtc. (Someone might point out that he was friends with Larry, which is true, but he did not agree with Larry about some very important things. Jobs was capable of that kind of relationship.)

The degree of appeasement he would be performing on behalf of Apple is a fair subject to contemplate. Whether he'd be besties with Steven Miller and Jeffrey Epstein, is not a reasonable topic to speculate on. The answer is obvious to anyone who knew him at all.

[Teever]

All those things may be true but at the end of the day guys like Jobs and Trump are like oil and water personality wise.

Trump would have invariably said some stupid shit about Jobs publicly or to his face privately and Jobs would have never forgot it and would have obsessed with hurting Trump over it.

For better or worse that's just the kind of guy he was.

[jjtheblunt]

Did you know him or ever speak with him in person?

I have while working in Apple in a critical engineering group, and the negatives you keep citing seem to have died off in his 20s, at which time they indelibly (deservedly) tainted public perception. the post NeXT 'return' seemed very very different than what you describe, from in person experience.

[WillAdams]

I really wish that there was an equivalent to the Mac's

https://folklore.org/0-index.html

for the NeXT stage of things --- Luciano Dadda's recent book _Inside NeXT_ is nice for covering at least the hardware, but just not quite the same w/o the personal anecdotes