[parl_match]

These people have made consuming an experience a large part of their identity. That's it. They consume the parks. They consume the food. They consume the experiences. They even consume cheap clothes on amazon that match the general colors of their favorite cartoon characters (it's called disneybounding, look it up).

[parliament32]

You're not wrong, but isn't "consumption" the entire point of every vacation ever? Do you do anything other than consume when you, say, go for a cruise? Road trip across the country? Go be a tourist in a city abroad? What could you possibly get out of a vacation other than "consuming"?

[stevekemp]

> What could you possibly get out of a vacation other than "consuming"?

I sleep in a cabin next to a lake, or on a hammock in the woods. I drink beer, fish, and go to sauna every day.

There's no "consumption" above and beyond the food/drinks.

[lux-lux-lux]

You drive the truck, you rent the cabin, you drink the overpriced beer, you buy the fishing gear, you pay for the fitness club membership.

Lifestyle tat for the outdoorsy set is an absolutely massive market that dwarfs the entire Disney empire.

[parl_match]

Consumer-brain people can't help but project their own desire to consume consume consume.

You state that there's a truck. Those are expensive. Is that a requirement? Can I just use my car or take the train?

You imply the beer is overpriced. Is expensive beer a requirement? Is a box of the cheapest beer they sell at the market not acceptable?

You imply that I have to buy the gear to go. Is buying new gear a requirement? Yes, I have bought gear at one time, but I have had it for a long time.

You imply that the sauna requires a "fitness club membership". Is a fitness club membership a requirement? Can I not use the one in the cabin? Or what about the one I built in my home?

Trucks, expensive beer, buying new gear, even paying a subscription for a "fitness club" are all YOUR consumer mindset, probably American. Yes, consumption is happening, but your own projection of what is wanted vs what is required says a lot about your wants more than what you're trying to say about the person you're replying to.

> Lifestyle tat for the outdoorsy set is an absolutely massive market that dwarfs the entire Disney empire.

I'm sure it is.

Just because other people wish to consume the luxury gorp core outdoorsy market doesn't mean that I am obligated to. I just want to be outside, exploring the terrain and feeling the air and relaxing.

Yes, you can be reductionist about the word "consume", but what I am describing is a far cry from a highly curated, disneyland experience, where you buy fried food and take a picture with a man in a mascot costume.

[brailsafe]

Depends how far you want to go with reducing things down to consumption. Does going somewhere to hike, climb, or camp count as just consumption? I can't stand going somewhere to only look at things or eat things, it gets very boring very quickly, but I like meeting people and going on adventures, exploring nature in as physical way as possible regardless of viewpoint availability.

[parl_match]

You can be reductionist about the word consume, but I think there's a far difference between exploring and engaging in the world around you. Engaging people, meeting them on mutual terms (and not just on your terms, as a "customer"), and engaging the world.

Versus multiple yearly curated luxury theme park vacations where you eat prepared fried food and go on prepared boat rides and take photos with people in mascot outfits and you're paying everyone to be nice and predictable to you.

[snickerbockers]

I think a better question is how much people consume in general. There are plenty of people who replace their car every 2-3 years but that doesn't get nearly as much scorn and mockery.

[parl_match]

> What could you possibly get out of a vacation other than "consuming"?

Oof.

[fuzzfactor]

Instant corrective upvote.

Yes, consuming is an experience, and experience is one of the ideal things to do on vacation in particular.

Surely it's still legal to have just as many new and rewarding experiences, in a new or familiar environment for the same duration of time, and none of them are actual consumer activities.

It can be as fantastic as possible without doing any more significant or out-of-the ordinary consumption than otherwise.

If you can't get the most out of both plain experiences and dedicated consumption, any travel might not be as worthwhile as it could be.

[parl_match]

Engaging with the world, with people, with experiences, and places is good! Yes, there is a consumptive element to it, but you can be reductionist about that all the way down.

It's a far cry from taking a vacation where, for the entire time, you are The Customer. Where you are paying for predictable catered experiences and food, where everyone is trying to serve you in some way.

[simon666]

While I agree somewhat with the descriptive aspect of your comment I think you assume a view of humans that is too atomic or individualistic as agenents. No doubt "these people" have "made" consuming a large part of their identity, but this is only half the story.

The reality in which many in the US and maybe the West generally (perhaps elsewhere too) is one in which one's life as an agent is constrained within the bounds of being a consumer. What I mean is people are habituated into expressing their agency as a consumer: Someone or thing offers you something, you "decide" to accept it or reject it. If you don't like what's being offered, you leverage your ability to consume as the means by which you exert power over the producer, i.e., "Make me an offer I like or I'll consumer elsewhere (if I can)".

So, of course people's identities are consumption centered. This is because is what reality is for peoples' everyday life, consumption choices. So people express who they are through the available consumption choices. Think about how people are marketed to, at least in the US. People are slammed with "Your choice" and "have it your way" and "be you" in advertising as if consuming a product is an expression of their respective identities.

Anyway, this is all just to say: The structure of society and the discourse that supports it plays a big role in constraining and guiding how people think and what choices people can even imagine are open to them when making decisions. So not all the responsibility or blame should be focused on individuals, but on large social structures, practices, and discourses.

[parl_match]

> So, of course people's identities are consumption centered

> The structure of society and the discourse that supports it plays a big role in constraining and guiding how people think and what choices people can even imagine are open to them when making decisions. So not all the responsibility or blame should be focused on individuals, but on large social structures, practices, and discourses.

Skill issue.

[array_key_first]

If you exist within a society you must play by the societies rules, to an extent. There's no free pass from consumption, everybody must consume.

Even the act of not consuming can become consumption. Minimalism, the almost anithesis of consumption, itself became a new avenue of consumption.

You can, of course, genuinely live modestly with minimal consumption. Keyword minimal. You just always consume to an extent.

[fuzzfactor]

>You can, of course, genuinely live modestly with minimal consumption. Keyword minimal. You just always consume to an extent.

This is ideal for some people, and/or at certain times, I've done it.

But it's still only half the equation.

I prefer to produce much much rather than consume.

I want to produce so much real tangible value added, that the amount I consume is negligible by comparison.

[array_key_first]

In my opinion, just by virtue of living in the developed world you're not going to be producing more than you consume. That's how the core works, it siphons from the periphery.

[glasss]

I guess that is their hobby, consuming the products or experiences and sharing that with others.

[tylerflick]

They also ruin the experience of trying to take your child to one of these parks.

[mekdoonggi]

I can think of a million things I'd rather do with my kids. I don't understand why people continue to go to these parks. The experience is bad with or without the Disney adults.

[coldtea]

and even calling the things they consume "experiences" is overselling them

[alephnerd]

There's nothing wrong with targeting a different ICP from who you were previously.

As a business you in fact have an incentive to target these kinds of identity-driven consumers as they are much more likely to spend more on average than others.

And Disney is shifting their entire GTM as a result, but frankly there is nothing wrong with that - consumer tastes change.

That said, it sounds like you are dismissive of Disney-fanatics when in reality everyone is hypertargeted by their specific subculture. Doesn't matter if your a Tater, a ranked MMO gamer, Boardgame addicts, fantasy football aficionado, CrossFit enthusiast, mechanical keyboard collector, etc.

[parl_match]

I don't really care about Disney's business. The Disney adults, as people, are bleak. Take their money, who cares.

> That said, it sounds like you are dismissive of Disney-fanatics when in reality everyone is hypertargeted by their specific subculture. Doesn't matter if your a Tater, a ranked MMO gamer, Boardgame addict, fantasy football aficionado, CrossFit enthusiast, etc.

does everyone has to have a "specific subculture" that they consume? i feel like that way of looking at things is bleak. im a heavy fitness enthusiast and i hardly spend any money besides a basic gym membership and the cost of trail/camp permits

[alephnerd]

> does everyone has to have a "specific subculture" that they consume?

Everyone already does. It's called hobbies. Some people make their hobbies their entire identity, others less so.

[parl_match]

a "specific subculture" really elevates "hobbies" beyond what they are, maybe

hobbies don't have to be about consumption. In your post, it seemed like they did.

[alephnerd]

The reality is, to participate in any hobby you will have to expend significant amounts of dough, and invariably some people will spend more of their discretionary income on said hobby over others.

And businesses are businesses - be their your local small business bicycle shop or a mega-conglomerate like Disney - and as such will always optimize for those people who are open to spending a larger proportion on said hobby than the median consumer.

I'm sure if we all took a look at everyone else's hobbies and spending, we would find stuff which we would view as ridiculous consumption but the other person would view as valuable.

For example, I've been pretty competitive in powerlifting for several years (especially as I used to crosstrain in HS for wrestling and track&field) and unsurprisingly spending significantly more than other people getting personal training from coaches, buying IWF-certified barbells, Nike Romaleos, Titan bumper plates, etc. Someone who isn't into powerlifting would look at me as being weird (why not just go to a gym 2 times a week and call it a day?!?) but I derive utility from it.

As long as someone is able to afford their hobby without impacting their professional and personal lives, there is nothing wrong with it.

[glasss]

The reality actually is you do not need to spend a lot of money to participate in any hobby. Some hobbies are expensive, and may have gotten more expensive in recent years, but at least in my experience and social circles it's very easy to participate in hobbies without spending a lot of money.

[coldtea]

>The reality is, to participate in any hobby you will have to expend significant amounts of dough,

No shortage of very cheap or free hobbies. Walking is free. Cooking is what you'd spend anyway for food (or cheaper if it helps you skip delivery), watching movies cheap (not to mention piratable), coding is cheap, playing 8-bit games is cheap, a book club is cheap, sewing is cheap, drawing is cheap, writing is cheap...

[parl_match]

> The reality is, to participate in any hobby you will have to expend significant amounts of dough

No, you don't. Maybe you think you do, because of consumer mindset. But you don't.

[mna_]

I have 2 hobbies: maths and chess. For maths: I borrow books from the library or pirate them from anna's archive and do problems from the books on printer paper. Very cheap hobby overall. For chess: I bought cheap plastic pieces and a board from amazon (cost me £25/$30), I pirate chess books from anna's archive and I play on lichess (it's free).

Also without sounding like an elitist: not all hobbies are equal. I have so much more respect for someone who sits in their room and studies something difficult like analytic number theory, or someone like you who powerlifts over some "Disneyadult" whose life revolves around buying Made-in-China Disney branded products (i.e. their hobby is just clicking "buy" on some site).

[coldtea]

Most people don't base their personality on their hobbies

[CharlesW]

And most adults who like Disney aren't "Disney adults". There are extremists in every hobby and fandom.

[Rebelgecko]

(x) to doubt

[fuzzfactor]

>Disney is shifting their entire GTM

You also have to figure that most parents can't afford to take their kids to Disney as easily as they could just year or two ago, and may never be able to do so again.

[alephnerd]

They're fine with that.

A Disney holiday as a pre-teen or early childhood milestone was only true amongst a subset of middle class Americans during the 1960s-2000s.

Heck, the first time I visited Disney was during my high school graduation with the subsidized HS Disneyland grad trip which Disney created in order to create a monetizable nostalgic customer base that became 'Disney Adults'.

Most people globally never experienced that, and only really care about Disney from a teen or adult oriented lens.

A high earning single person household flying in from Beijing or a DINK household in NYC spending $1-2K at a Disney resort is more valuable and provides better margins than a household of 4 spending $600 on Disney (and most likely won't stay at the resort).

It's the same strategy the foreign Disney Experience properties (Paris, Hong Kong, Shanghai) and the Walt Disney cruises use as well.

You aren't a bad parent if you didn't take your family to Disneyworld - in fact they don't really want your money anymore.

[fuzzfactor]

>the first time I visited Disney was during my high school

Me too, but back when I started high school Disneyworld didn't yet exist, and by the time I got there the first phase was only about halfway built.

It was already too expensive for Florida natives though, but almost every Orlando resident could get special passbooks from places like their employer or church. My sweetheart's older brother had moved up there and set us up with a few days worth.

It was just plain designed to not only be expensive, but overpriced to boot :\

I'll still remember the second time we went to it a few years later after it was "complete." Still surrounded by swamp, there were no competitive attractions yet and to celebrate the completion they were going to shoot off fireworks for the first time, like the original in Anaheim was famous for every day.

It was a massive show, way over the top, after all it was Fourth of July, 1976, the Bicentennial of the founding of the USA :)

[alephnerd]

Oh wow, I didn't realized Disneyworld was built so recently