[richrichardsson]

I would half like to move back to the UK, but I'm terribly worried that after jumping through all the hoops so that my EU citizen partner could come with us and be a part our children's lives that Reform would get in and throw out all the "undesirables" (basically anyone without a British Passport at first, sure they won't stop there). I'm really not sure how likely them attaining power is, but it sure looks like a terrible but possible future from afar. :(

[dochne]

All of my EU friends living in the UK have now applied for citizenship.

The risk profile for "I have indefinite leave to remain" has moved from "this won't be an issue at all" to "we have no trust in the government on this" in a few short years.

Profoundly depressing

[graemep]

I really cannot understand why people who are permanently settled in a country would not apply for citizenship.

It is not a matter of trust. Unless you are a citizen your right to remain in a country is always subject to the approval of the government and rules can change. it is the point of the distinction between "indefinite leave to remain" and citizenship.

I have noticed that only white people commit to living in the UK without becoming citizens. Sindhu Vee is very funny about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8DNgi5Tok4&t=90s

[saithound]

> I have noticed that only white people commit to living in the UK without becoming citizens.

Alas, you've not discovered a hidden pattern, except maybe a hidden pattern in the kinds of people you socialize with. Chinese nationals cannot hold dual citizenship, and renouncing their Chinese citizenship creates very serious complications, including around property and inheritance when parents die, which you would be aware of if you knew any Chinese person well enough to have had this conversation with them.

Based on gov.uk immigration system statistics data and tables, among those with indefinite leave to remain, the most likely to seek citizenship are British Overseas Citizens, Austrians and Lithuanians. The least likely are Moroccans and Venezuelans.

[hsiudh]

> The least likely are Moroccans and Venezuelans

Weird in the Venezuelans case, as there is no restrictions for double nationality and having only Venezuelan citizenship doesn't have many advantages. I would guess that it is because most Venezuelans living there already have an European passport due to parents/grandparent, so no need/can't get a third

[graemep]

Cannot only if the other European country does not allow dual nationality.

If they are permanently settled in the UK surely it would be better to have British citizenship rather than that of a country they do not live in?

The nationalities listed are all very small groups in the UK. maybe they are not really permanently settled? Someone who moves somewhere for work might end up living there a decade (and in the UK that would mean getting indefinite leave to remain) and then returning.

[graemep]

I admit not knowing a lot of Chinese nationals, but I do know a very wide range of people. Of course, issues with property and inheritance only apply to people who have sufficient for it to be a major issue.

Could you link to the stats showing that? What about all the other countries? What is the position of BNOs?

Indefinite leave to remain is not the same as permanently settled - there is a difference between long term and the rest of your life.

[fersarr]

Apart from the fact that some countries don't allow dual citizenships so you would loose the other one:

- cost: ~2k

- time: 2 exams

- paperwork required to keep other nationalities in some cases

- after feb 2026, you can only re-enter the UK with a British passport (more cost) or with extra paperwork to enable your other passport (more costs ~500)

[graemep]

Countries that do not allow dual citizenship is a good reason, and maybe the cost and paperwork required by other countries (although, unless you really cannot afford it its worth getting it to cover yourself in case rules change). I did it myself.

The same goes for the cost of British citizenship. once you have it its just the cost of renewing passports (about £100/decade at current rates) for the rest of your life. That £2,000 is much less than the cost of renewing some types or residence visa and gives you the security of being a citizen.

[testing22321]

Cost is a big reason.

My personal reason is that I travel a lot, so I never meet the physical presence within the country requirements.

[dmacedo]

Some countries don't allow dual citizenship, which means you'd no longer be a citizen of your country of origin, you know, where your family might live.

I have plenty of friends who otherwise would apply, and ILR should be sufficient in a democratic government following social and political contracts.

[dwedge]

Is that true for any EU countries?

[roryirvine]

Yes: Austria and Slovakia still do, possibly others as well. And Germany only stopped preventing it within the last year or two.

The UK will help circumvent this for current British citizens when they acquire new citizenship in one of those countries (eg. America famously makes you hand over your old passport, but the UK will happily ship you a replacement in an unmarked envelope), but that doesn't really work so well in the other direction.

[riffraff]

this was true until a few years ago for Italy and France too, getting one nationality would instantly lose you the other. I think this isn't true anymore, but I do have a friend who lived in the country for decades and never picked up the nationality because of this.

[Nursie]

As a brit also watching from afar...

It does seem scarily likely, but he still has a few years to really screw things up before we get there. Fingers crossed.

Without a large-scale cock-up, I don't see Starmer as inspiring enough to stop him unfortunately. Lets hope someone else steps up to the plate with a bit more charisma.

[RobotToaster]

Unless something major happens I'm almost certain they'll either win the next election or be part of a coalition.

About the only thing that can stop them is the Tories holding onto relevance enough to split their vote again.

[ejejee]

It’s not likely at all that they’ll win the next election lmao.

[graemep]

I think you are worrying too much and a lot of this is media hype. Their main focus is small boats and people entering the country illegally. If they do restrict them more you are almost certainly better off getting your partner a visa before (but I think you would need to marry to get a spouse visa though).

> Reform would get in and throw out all the "undesirables" (basically anyone without a British Passport at first, sure they won't stop there)

I think that is an exaggerated view from a distance. I see no evidence they can do that, or want to. At the time of the Brexit campaign Farage said he wanted skilled immigrants (he gave the example of Indian doctors immigrating in the 1970s as the wort of thing he wanted). Nor can the country afford to lose skilled people. Its worth remembering that Reform would not agree to what Elon Musk wanted in return for funding so I think its safe to assume Reform would not be as extreme as the current US government.

I am of foreign birth, as is my younger daughter (she was born abroad) and I am not particularly worried. I would worry if Rupert Lowe's Restore party started making gains, or Ben Habib's Advance party.

> I'm really not sure how likely them attaining power

They are doing well in the polls now but my feeling is they are peaking. Letting on too many Conservative defectors makes them look at lot less of an anti-establishment party (a huge part of their appeal) and they are becoming too extreme (I think in reaction to the splash, mostly on social media) made by Advance and Restore (one of those is what Elon Musk endorses, so that gives you an idea where they are).

[pjc50]

The government can very easily change your status from "legal" to "illegal" by flipping a bit. And the newspapers, who are driving this, don't care about skills, they care about the raw numbers. The members of the public driving this don't even care about immigration status, but skin colour.

[graemep]

They can change people's status, but I am saying they will not. It is not Reform party policy (as Rupert Lowe keeps pointing out!) and it would be disastrous to do it.

The net immigration numbers are falling!

I disagree about the public. Its very clear that the opposition to immigration is almost entirely about small boats and illegal entry.

As for skin colour, of the tiny number or racists I have heard of in real life, one comment repeated back to me made it clear the person involved preferred at least some Asians (those with skills etc.) to Eastern Europeans.

[ben_w]

> Its very clear that the opposition to immigration is almost entirely about small boats and illegal entry.

No, that's just the current talking point.

A decade ago, small boats not in the news, somehow managed to still be a big talking point on Brexit campaign. Worse, part of the Brexit campaign was scare-mongering that the EU had made it so the UK had no control over its borders, no control over its immigration laws, and even had one poster further scare-mongering that the UK would be forced to allow in the entire population of Turkey* even though Turkey wasn't actually in the EU nor did anyone think it would get in any time soon and the UK had a veto on expansion anyway (plus the more fundamental pretentiousness in thinking they'd want to come en-masse anyway, given that Turkish people are like everyone else, in that almost none of them really care for the idea of moving to the UK).

Even for "unlawful entry" of asylum seekers who were still allowed to lawfully claim asylum, the UK was part of the Dublin III system, which oh-so-conveniently meant the UK could argue that all the other countries most people would need to go through to get to the UK should have taken them first, to which I'd like to say this:

J'ai obtenu la note D au GCSE de français, et pourtant j'ai étudié la langue à l'école. À votre avis, comment un demandeur d'asile lambda originaire de l'ancien Empire britannique va-t-il s'en sortir?

Most asylum seekers do, in fact, stop at the first safe country; the UK has always only had a tiny fraction of the total, and loses its collective mind anyway.

* Note my careful phrasing and also their careful phrasing in this specific ad; they note the population to give the implication, I did not say they said all of them will come in**, only that they said all of them must be allowed to, when EU membership never did any such thing: https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-brexit-turkey-loses-its-bi... and https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2018/07/facebook-relea...

** apparently one of the "senior Brexiteers" did, but I can't trivially find any actual citation and don't care to put in the effort to look harder

[tokai]

Lots of things are disasterous to do, and still UK has a proud traditions of doing those things.

[n1b0m]

Are you aware that Rupert Lowe was kicked out of Reform?

[pjc50]

We heard all of that in the US before ICE.

[dwedge]

Have you ever spoken to any member of the public in support of Reform to base your opinions on, or is this just similar to when every single brexit voters (millions of people) was assumed to be racist and uneducated

[dTal]

Almost everyone voting Brexit was uneducated on the issues, a fact rapidly borne out by actually speaking to them. Actually "uneducated" is quite charitable as quite a lot are racist also. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise with a straight face.

[dwedge]

Which issues were they uneducated on? How many did you speak to, and I'm not talking about the engagement-bait bots on places like the Trending side of Twitter

[thunderfork]

A lot of Republican supporters would have, and still might, insist that the US's current purge is focused on "criminals" despite the quota-driven shitfest it's become. People say a lot of things, and they rarely line up with policies in practice.

[n1b0m]

Reform would create ICE-style agency and end leave to remain

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/feb/22/reform-uk-i...

[drcongo]

This could easily be copied and pasted from the replies to people who were worried about the rise of facism in the US a couple of years ago.

[Havoc]

For what it’s worth I’ve had zero problems thus far (under eu settled scheme)

[graemep]

They have missed the EU settled scheme so its going to have to be a normal visa - so either the partner has to be skilled or wealthy enough to qualify, or it has to be a spouse visa.

[Havoc]

Ah right. Well there are changes incoming shortly for that which could either be favourable or not depending on partners circumstances. Eg there is a high earner thing that shortens path etc

[ozlikethewizard]

If (more likely when but gotta stay optimistic) the fascists do take power there will be people that fight. There already are so many people standing up. My recommendation for a non-brit would unfortunately be to avoid moving to anywhere that could be classified as Little England. I'm fortunate enough to live in the bubble that is the "UKs happiest city", and while you cant pretend racism / xenophobia are extinct here, people do stick up for eachother and mind their own businesses. The UK is great, even so for immigrants, its just finding those pockets of tolerance and kindness in an ever growing sea of shite. British people need to focus on rebuilding our strong local communities that were smashed by Thatcher, and then this too shall pass.

[graemep]

Its funny how all the racism is happening somewhere else in the country, but very few people experience it themselves. Survey data supports this.

I have lived in several parts of the UK, have friends in many more. I currently live in a very white village. I am visible ethnic minority. I see no sign of racism. I know of a few overt racists at second or third hand (they know someone who knows someone I know).

There is lots of racism on social media, but even most of that is in reaction to ragebait posts, some posted by people who are not even British.

[ozlikethewizard]

That's great for you! Not sure a single anecdotal experience outweighs the measurable rise in race related crime and the systemic issues that have long been present. Add onto that the sheer number of people who voted reform at the last election, and their pretty stellar local election performance thats forecast to only improve. Then cherry on top it with the anti-migrant rhetoric pushed by the majority of British news firms that has undoubtedly ended up influencing some pretty diabolical policy decisions (Rwanda, changes to student visas, leaving the EU when the leave side campaigned on an almost solely anti-migrant platform). And I guess were just ignoring the actual fascist marches in London over the past couple of years? Or the burning of hotels housing refugees? You can bury your head in the sand if you want, and I really am glad you're not suffering, but people are. Them today, you tomorrow.