[_carbyau_]

> enable 10-minute charging.

I have a problem with the current physics of this. A car requires a LOT of energy to run. The electrical requirements "at the pump" are going to be pretty hefty for 10 minute charging.

Unless:

1. Reduce capacity requirements. IE Cars evolve smaller and smaller until they are practically aerodynamically efficient go-karts. A trend opposite of current affairs....

2. Charge for longer timeframes but swap in less than 10 minutes. IE standardise and replace batteries as needed.

I suspect that the "10 minute recharge" meme will be obviated by ridiculous ranges allowing us to then charge while sleeping instead.

[xbmcuser]

2-3 min battery replacement is already a thing in China for trucks. The largest manufacture CATL is also pushing for safety and compatibility standards so all trucks can use all truck batteries in future. And for charging they are building charging stations with batteries that are charged slowly but can charge cars fast. The electricity revolution is just picking up pace

[mikestorrent]

Trucks are a far cry from cars. There's a lot more space and specialized service facilities and maintenance procedures are the norm. Drivers are expected to understand far more about their vehicles.

[xbmcuser]

I don't understand what you mean Nio the car manufacturer is already doing 100k+ battery swaps a day for passenger cars. I mentioned ev trucks as some mentioned that hydrogen would be easier / cheaper for trucks which I think is wrong as using explosions to move object won't be as cheap or maintenance free as using electricity to move magnets/motors.

[mikestorrent]

I've gone and watched a video on this now and am impressed, it is a lot further along than I knew about.

Consider this as it scales up, though - I can get electricity from anywhere for my car, from a 120V socket in front of a building that a nice owner lets me borrow for an hour, to a 600VDC superfast charger. I can get gasoline anywhere. Heck, there are even hydrogen stations around here now.

I just don't see this kind of thing being scalable to anything other than small urban areas, which are exactly the place they're not needed, because you can charge a car with 300-400km battery range once a week or less and be fine in the city. Where I need my battery swap is more likely to be while I'm on a road trip going for distance. How could I be confident a full battery that's compatible with my car is going to be available for me, and that all the automation to replace it will be in perfect shape, and that the bottom of my car hasn't rusted to the point where this doesn't work anymore?

[xbmcuser]

Actually battery swaps and needing fast charging are for city car owners for rest of the people that own houses they mostly don't need fast charging. They can install solar and can easily charge at home. Most private cars run for less than 2 hours a day. And are parked somewhere most of day I think need for fast charging is mostly about non ev owners not realising they do not need to do things the way they used to with gas cars. Battery swapping is more useful for commercial vehicles that are constantly running

[mikestorrent]

I like the idea of swappable batteries in theory, but in reality... well... that's a lot of logistics and a lot of potential for things to go wrong. Consider the swappable propane tank market, for instance; it's clear that returning cans need refurbishment and testing before you can give them back out to people. This implies it probably can't be just done on-site at a gas station.

They also weigh an absolute ton, so specialized lift equipment is needed; they take up space and will be very difficult to move around. So, are we expecting to stock a huge pile of batteries somewhere with an automatic loader/unloader that can handle multiple people at once with a quick turnover rate that can put away a 2000 pound battery? It's just too much infra, compared to a charging station...

And then there's the matter of the vehicle design; chassis rigidity is important and batteries, being a huge weight, need to be positioned properly with enough load bearing structure around them to support this. I'm imagining a hydraulic lift raising a 2000 pound battery up into my car; some massive brace needs to be attached below it to hold it up. Talk about difficult to get right; we've got harsh conditions like road salt and rust to deal with, and we have to make a fully automatable fastening device that can work at a random gas station with any brand of car... yikes.

You're actually much closer to the idea with the reduce-capacity idea. I had a Ford Focus Electric a while ago that had about 80km of range on a good day. This was more than enough for 90% of my driving; my old SUV handled the rest. Net carbon savings were huge; pity it was totaled in an accident or I'd have kept it going. Even at almost 10 years old it still kept a charge no problem and was a delight to drive compared to a normal Focus. My current EV has far more range but feels heavy and ponderous despite nearly 500 HP.

[RandallBrown]

Doesn't Nio have a few thousand battery swapping stations in China?

[shellfishgene]

They just announced a while ago that they performed their 100 millionth battery swap, and just now "Nio's 3,750 battery swap stations delivered 2,073,500 battery swap services between February 10-23" (Chinese new year). Seems to work fine.

[mikestorrent]

Another commenter pointed that out, it's impressive, but when one imagines trying to do that kind of thing in North America where we can't even build new train tracks it seems somewhat infeasible

[vardump]

Very much simplified, a 10 minute charge would mean 6C charging throughout the curve. 100 kWh battery would thus require 600 kW on average. Right now the most powerful MCS chargers deliver 1440 kW.

So not impossible, as long as the battery can handle the current. It's obvious that charging technology is not going to be the bottleneck.

(A real battery would probably have a charging curve that slows down towards the end, so more than 6C would be required in realistic conditions.)