[superxpro12]

For all the progress, you lose me immediately with the "social credit" system. If there was really true 'progress', then you wouldn't need a one-party system that suppresses all dissent.

Only need to look to the recent changes in Hong-Kong and the obviously hostile takeover of a democratic government to see how "pure" these changes really are.

[hamandcheese]

> If there was really true 'progress', then you wouldn't need a one-party system that suppresses all dissent.

This makes no sense. It is possible for a totalitarian government which is threatened by dissent and concepts like "democracy" to also work in the interest of improving overall quality of life.

[viraptor]

If things work so well that everyone's quality or life is improved, why would there be dissent large enough to worry about.

It's the same category as: Why would a company with happy well paid workers be worried about unions and try to stop them forming.

[henrikschroder]

> If things work so well that everyone's quality or life is improved, why would there be dissent large enough to worry about.

Have you met people?

[viraptor]

Sure. There's always going to be someone opposing something. But I'm not aware of cases where a disagreement in an environment good for everyone was large enough that it caused the leadership/government collapse. Similarly on a small scale, the number of grumpy people at companies I worked at scaled more or less with how good things were for everyone.

In other words, if things are good enough, there will be more people disagreeing with the totalitarian part than with the overall conditions.

[GreenWatermelon]

Foreign state-actors love to sow discontent in enemy territories. It doesn't matter what they say to rile up the population and cause instability -- they'll just do it.

[thenthenthen]

Social credit system is not really a thing. Yes various apps have various ‘credit scores’ and if you are convicted of crimes you can get travel limitations, but there is no such thing as a ‘social credit system’. Much like how the government is not centralised at all, provinces can make their own laws and so on.

[r14c]

I believe the premise is that you have to oppress the rich to a certain extent to prevent them from usurping the people's government for their own ends.

[xtn]

There are bad things in China, but there is no "social credit" system being used.

[Saline9515]

Yes there is. Why deny it? It's pretty public. In this french documentary, which was later aired on the parliamentary tv channel, the author films his daily life with his chinese wife, who has a social credit account, and interviews officials speaking openly about it. It's 4 years old.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma6txLM_LLs

[ivankabiden]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit_system#Misconcep...

There is no so-called social credit system you western guys have in mind. There is a credit reporting system. It's not that different from the US credit reporting system. But it has far less of an impact on our daily lives than the US system on Americans. For example, no one asks for your credit report when you want to rent a house.

[yanhangyhy]

i dont have.. and nobody talks about it.. in china.

this remind me one of the ep of the TV show <newsroom> when they found so many evidence of a massacre using chemical weapons and broadcast it.. and then found out its all fake.

[Saline9515]

If no one talks about it, why is this .gov.cn article discusses the problems currently posed by the existing social credit system? There isn't indeed a nation-wide score, but given the size of Chinese municipalities (often larger than most countries in the world), it's far from anecdotal.

https://credit.fgw.sh.gov.cn/xyyj/20220902/8693d5ba378d4f578...

[ivankabiden]

There is a credit reporting system, similar to the one in the US. However, most people are not affected by it in their daily lives. Only those who are in serious financial trouble and cannot pay off their debts are placed on a blacklist, which restricts them from traveling by high-speed rail or flights.

[grosswait]

Yeah, I was on my way to being convinced that my understanding was a misconception, but this just halted that in its tracks. You’ve just stated the slippery slope has been built and is ready when desired.

[transcriptase]

Now go find a mirror and read your post out loud to yourself, slowly.

[yanhangyhy]

> There isn't indeed a nation-wide score

there is no score at all. even this article didn't talk about anything about 'score'. its no different compare to many other countries. soical credit system is a general concept.

I do wish everybody outside of china have your mindset. then we have nothing to worry about.

[stx5]

fake news!

[TheOtherHobbes]

There's a social credit system everywhere. It's called "money". It's quite literally and explicitly a credit system that rewards certain behaviours and castes and punishes and disempowers others.

The fact that everyone in the West is used to it doesn't alter the fact that it's social engineering at scale and not a law of nature.

[resters]

Snowden's revelations showed that the same stuff exists in the US.

[shimman]

Dude come on, the US already has a social credit system. Where do you think China got the idea of credit scores from? Try getting a good loan in the US if your credit score is under 400. You're barred from having certain jobs if you don't have a good credit score.

Get some new talking points, you're like 40 years out of date.

[Saline9515]

The difference with China is that the US credit score is limited to your banking activities.

[m4ck_]

It's not just loans and banking. Bad credit severely limits your housing options, even rooms for rent are running credit checks these days. Some employers too, even in roles where you aren't directly handling money or anything close to it.

[Saline9515]

I understand this, but I meant that the data sources used to build credit scores are mainly banking/debt related. Jaywalking ore saying slurs online won't affect it, unlike in China.

[kakacik]

*not yet. And if you are not US citizen and coming in as a tourist, what you write applies heavily and can end up in properly harsh treatment. So its not as rosy as you write (which already ain't rosy)

[palmotea]

The difference between a social credit score and a credit score is when you criticize the president, your social credit score goes down, but your credit score stays the same.

[TheOtherHobbes]

The people who have been stalked and apprehended by ICE for online criticism of what ICE is doing might not agree.

As might visitors who are being asked to show five years of social media history to make sure their views are politically acceptable.

Free speech is over. If dissent isn't being actively punished - the current push for deanonymisation is coincidental, no doubt - at the very least it's heavily throttled algorithmically.

[MSFT_Edging]

That's not actually true. Companies can opt to report your employment to credit agencies, providing another datapoint in background checks.

[deadfoxygrandpa]

what do you think china's credit system is like?

[digitalPhonix]

Have you tried renting recently?

[biggoodwolf]

No true scotsman