[onjectic]

> SAN DIEGO, California

> to help retain the Dutch company's edge over emerging U.S. and Chinese rivals

Great news, but what a strange attempt to equate the U.S. and China in this and build a narrative. Cymer was founded in San Diego.

[petcat]

Yeah it's an interesting angle in the article. The EUV light source technology is completely designed, developed, and manufactured by Cymer in California, which is a US company that ASML acquired in 2013. If export control agreements were not in place then ASML would have never been permitted to acquire Cymer. And if they are not enforced then the US would almost certainly require ASML to sell Cymer back to US ownership, TikTok-style.

The reality is that it's American technology that is used in ASML machines so I don't know why the article tries to frame it like it's a competition.

[adrian_b]

There is much more in an ASML machine, besides the UV source.

So the ASML machines combine technologies developed in various places, not only in USA, even if the UV source is indeed a critical component. While an ASML machine would not work without the UV source, it would also not work without many other critical optical and mechanical components.

If it were so easy to make a lithography machine when you have a UV source, Cymer would have remained an independent company or it would have been bought by a US company. Cymer has been bought by their only customer.

The same happens when you look at a PC, it is likely that it contains something essential that comes from USA, i.e. the CPU logic may be designed by AMD, but the manufacturing technology is designed in Taiwan, the memories may be designed and made in Korea, other chips may be designed and made in Taiwan, other components come from Japan, the PCB may have been designed in Taiwan, but actually made in China, and so on.

So yes, it has some important US technology in it, but there is a very long way from a CPU logic design to a physical computer and most of that rarely has anything to do with USA.

The same happens with an ASML machine.

[momoschili]

While this is all true, I think it should be emphasized that the EUV source and supporting it with optics (Zeiss) and other machinery is the primary engineering effort around the development of lithographic systems.

The primary difference between this machine and its predecessor is the degree to which it has been optimized around the specific EUV light source.

[merb]

Your take is also a bad one. No what asml builds is not American technology. Why asml succeeded is because they got tons of company’s and people to help them advance the technology of the chip industry. Yes it wouldn’t be possible without the Americans. But it would also not be possible without the Europeans, the Koreans, etc… what asml did was basically ask the technology leaders in each field to build their best product so that they can take their parts and assembly this awesome piece of technology.

[mike_hearn]

My understanding based on reading Chip Wars was that Cymer only made the lasers (which are underneath the machine you see in photos). The rest of the mechanism with the tin droplets and cameras and mirrors to aim the lasers etc came from ASML and its other suppliers.

[ahartmetz]

Which American rival would that be anyway? I have not heard of any.

[petcat]

xLight is the promising new US competitor to Cymer. Lots of funding from the US CHIPS And Science Act. Founded by Dept. of Energy engineers who formerly worked on large-scale X-Ray systems and particle accelerators.

[ahartmetz]

Oh, alright. I was thinking of full lithography machines.

[foobiekr]

It wasn't just "permitted." The technology under discussion here was funded by the US the DOE and Intel and deliberately transferred by the US to ASML (and not, for example, a Japanese company or Samsung) as part of a soft power exercise.

It's crazy that Europeans keep citing ASML as a strong example of European innovation.

[onjectic]

It is a strong example of European innovation though. It’s a multinational project. I wasn’t casting shade on ASML, I was just pointing out the wording of the article implies some sort of competition between ASML and the US that does not exist.

[christkv]

I think the Japanese are also working on potentially competing technology

[ignoramous]

Don't think Rapidus is. Nikon & Canon might be researching alternatives to EUV Lithography but how long is that going to take?

LSTC will contribute research (for 1nm) though it isn't clear if it'll be in partnership with ASML or as competition.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/japan-seeks-revitalize-its-sem...