[register]

That response reeks of astonishing arrogance. It doesn’t surprise me that nearly 50% of Americans voted for Donald Trump he perfectly embodies that mindset. Do you genuinely believe you are superior to the rest of the world? What you call “innovation” or a “better product” is often nothing more than the creation of dominant market positions through massive, capital deployment, followed by straightforward rent extraction. The European Union has every right to regulate markets operating within its jurisdiction, especially when there are credible concerns about anti-competitive practices and abuse of dominance. From what I’ve seen, there may be sufficient grounds to consider collective legal action against LinkedIn at the European level. As for so-called “European nationalist ambitions,” rest assured: Europe does not lack capable lawyers or regulatory expertise. I will be forwarding the relevant material to contacts of mine working within the European institutions in Brussels.

[Saline9515]

Why can't the EU deploy capital? Regulation doesn't create better products, more aggressive marketing techniques, or deeply entrepreneurial mindsets which favor innovation and growth.

While OP is quite aggressive here, there is a nugget of truth: innovation doesn't happen because "we have the best lawyers" or "the best regulations". Maybe some self-criticism would be warranted to solve the problem.

Also nothing forces Europeans to use LinkedIn. I deleted my account long ago after getting search requests from NSA-adjacent private intel companies.

[register]

Here's another JD Vance who doesn't understand what international rules are and justifies that with (lack of) innovation

Below you can find the relevant GDPR excerpt. But before that, let me add to the coment below that US companies only comply with what EU institutions can enforce and what suits them; which is normal, since China does the same. Well, it couldn’t have been said better: in fact, we’re beginning to view you the same way we view China. And China innovates a lot, right?

"Article 3 – Territorial scope (GDPR)

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union, regardless of whether the processing takes place in the Union or not.

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union by a controller or processor not established in the Union, where the processing activities are related to: (a) the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or (b) the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union.

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law."

[Saline9515]

First I'm not american, I'm simply displeased to see my fellow Europeans seething about the consequences, while refusing to address the causes.

You speak about China: their government is very eager to favor local alternatives, which helps fund the local ecosystem.

In contrast, Euro countries don't generally procure office software from elsewhere than US companies (especially, Microsoft). It's always talk, talk, when the time for action comes, everyone looks at their shoes and signs the contract from the US company.

Even the European commission does the same, and filed a lawsuit against their own regulatory body after it pointed out that MS Office 365 wasn't fully compliant with the EC's own privacy rules! Rules for thee, not for me, as always with the EC.[0]

So yeah, regulations and laws don't replace political will and action. Especially when we talk about the EU, where hypocrisy and lobbying is at its highest.

[0] https://www.freevacy.com/news/official-journal-of-the-europe...

[register]

The point here isn’t that Europe lacks innovation and is too bureaucratic. I have no problem admitting that. The crux of the matter is that, in response to my complaint about the possible failure to comply with a European law, the reply was: LinkedIn answers to American laws, you have no alternative to LinkedIn, and therefore there’s no point in opposing it. You just have to put up with it; it’s your own fault for not innovating.

The scenario being portrayed is one in which the law of the strongest prevails over the rule of law. As a European, coming from the continent that gave birth to the rule of law, I find all of this appalling. And I am sorry to hear that a fellow European thinks along the same lines. I don’t believe this is realism; rather, it is surrender.

[Saline9515]

The law is just mere words if you don't have an army, the guns, and the will to back it up. It has never been different. Louis XIV's wrote "The last argument of kings" on his cannons, in the 17th century.

Guess who holds the guns that protect Europe right now? So yeah, either comply, leave (what I did), or create an alternative. The EU had Viadeo[0], it could have pushed it to have an alternative. It didn't.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viadeo

[rrook]

You’d be well served to stop the political name calling, it’s childish.

I view the dynamic from the opposite direction. You might think that that the EU is starting to view America the same way it views china, but in actuality the EU is starting to behave more like China. The wheels of a great firewall for the EU have been turning for some time already.

[foxglacier]

Is LinkedIn established in a place where Member State law applies? I guess not? You can't just go around pretending your law applies to people in other countries because none of the necessary institutions in those countries will respect your law.

[register]

The GDPR applies to the personal data of individuals in the European Union, regardless of where the data is processed. You can easily find the relevant law online.

[foxglacier]

It might say it applies but other countries have their own sovereignty and their residents aren't bound by every extra-territorial law written by every other country in the world.

[csmpltn]

European governments and institutions have conveniently exempted themselves from GDPR.

And just because it's a law somewhere on earth, doesn't make it reasonable or enforceable or legal.

1. American and European laws have different standards for data processing 2. EU citizens willingly go into a contract with an American company, buying and using American services 3. EU citizens complain American law is different than European law, whilst continuing to use American products 4. EU citizens expect their laws and regulations to apply to American companies

Nobody can reasonably expect American companies to just bend over for whatever the lawmakers in Europe demand. It's an absurd scenario that only the EU can come up with.

[rrook]

Maybe 30% of Americans voted for Donald Trump. This response reeks of ignorance and hubris.

> Do you genuinely believe you are superior to the rest of the world?

This assertion wasn't made, in any way, by the person you're replying to, and it sounds as though it's being asked in anger. This entire conversation has been about data privacy and stewardship. The OP has pointed out, correctly, that there's nothing that has prevented a EU based professional social network from existing in a way that is satisfying for EU based data policy.

If you sign up on an American website, you've decided to do business with Americans in America. Why are you entitled to something that the people you are doing business with are not subject to?

[Ylpertnodi]

It's the law.

[pixl97]

>Maybe 30% of Americans voted for Donald Trump

If you don't vote, you don't count.

[register]

Trump received 77,284,118 votes, representing 49.8% of the ballots cast for president. The 30% figure you mention refes to the share of the total voting-eligible population, including those who did not vote. A national poll conducted on February 16–18 found that 42.4% approve of Trump’s job performance, while 54.6% disapprove. Whether you accept it or not and whether you are a Democrat or Republican Trump now is the face of America and most of Europeans are of the same opinion.

Regardless of the fact that LinkedIn is an American company, it is required to comply with the GDPR when operating within the European Union. I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe that there is evidence of full compliance here.

[rrook]

We can have a more detailed discussion around political alignments in America, but you've already agreed that your original statement was false. I mention the 30% figure specifically because you said "nearly 50% of Americans voted for donald trump".

American companies "complying" with is only required insofar as the EU authorities can do anything about it - and that's the same dynamic that exists across all geo boundaries on the internet, that's not specifically American - see China and its great firewall. If an American company is taking steps to be in compliance with GDPR, it's because there is benefit in doing so.

WRT GDPR, I'd ask a clarification before continuing - you said "operating within the EU" - what does that mean? If I deploy a website, from America, onto American servers, and you can reach them from within the EU, am I "operating within the EU"? I'm not trying to be coy by asking this, I actually don't know the extent to which I agree or disagree with you.

[PKop]

The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must.

[gib444]

Indeed. But Americans are told they never use that strength to their advantage. It's all just the working 23 hours a day, determination and chasing the American dream that has resulted in supreme economic success.

Military is just for defence against baddies and liberating countries from dictators etc

[PKop]

> Americans are told

Yes or that using strength to one's advantage is necessarily bad.

[philipallstar]

> That response reeks of astonishing arrogance. It doesn’t surprise me that nearly 50% of Americans voted for Donald Trump he perfectly embodies that mindset. Do you genuinely believe you are superior to the rest of the world? What you call “innovation” or a “better product” is often nothing more than the creation of dominant market positions through massive, capital deployment, followed by straightforward rent extraction. The European Union has every right to regulate markets operating within its jurisdiction, especially when there are credible concerns about anti-competitive practices and abuse of dominance. From what I’ve seen, there may be sufficient grounds to consider collective legal action against LinkedIn at the European level. As for so-called “European nationalist ambitions,” rest assured: Europe does not lack capable lawyers or regulatory expertise. I will be forwarding the relevant material to contacts of mine working within the European institutions in Brussels.

This all seems to miss the point, which is: why does the US create so much stuff that Europe doesn't? Turning that useful reflective question into an attack on Americans sounds perfect if you want to refuse to work it out and change accordingly.

[Barrin92]

>why does the US create so much stuff that Europe doesn't?

because the "stuff" in question is social networks who live, as the name suggests, off network effects. To have a European LinkedIn would require everyone in Europe to switch at the same time. Which can be trivially arranged, we just would need the courage to ban LinkedIn and every other American social media company. We'd have a clone up and running in a month. You only need to look to China who did exactly this.

[csmpltn]

> "We just would need the courage to ban LinkedIn and every other American social media company. We'd have a clone up and running in a month. You only need to look to China who did exactly this."

That's socialist dictatorship. Why do you want the EU to be more like China, instead of the EU being more like the US? It will result in further isolation and decline of Europe which sorely depends both on the US (and China) for survival.

[Barrin92]

>Why do you want the EU to be more like China

I don't want to, but if people like you represent how Americans think, with nothing but contempt for Europe and only obsessed with power, then the Chinese were right about who Americans are and we were naive.

Then achieving autonomy quickly is necessary. And it's not about isolationism, just different priorities. The Chinese aren't isolated either. It's the US that's isolating itself right now as other countries see how they're treated.

[philipallstar]

> but if people like you represent how Americans think, with nothing but contempt for Europe and only obsessed with power, then the Chinese were right about who Americans are and we were naive.

I think it's much more the other way round. As a not-American, the amount of contempt I see Europeans having for Americans for not "valuing family" (i.e. lots of free childcare and maternity pay), or generally not having really expensive social programmes, and having medicine prices based on the R&D costs, when the only reason they can do that is because the US taxpayer funds most global shipping, and most health R&D in the world, is much higher than the reverse.

Saying "oh we should be autonomous" won't ever remove all the free help the US has given those countries in the past, even if they stop relying on it in the future.

[wolvoleo]

> This all seems to miss the point, which is: why does the US create so much stuff that Europe doesn't? Turning that useful reflective question into an attack on Americans sounds perfect if you want to refuse to work it out and change accordingly.

Because the US had so much venture capital, during the time of the low interest rates it was basically free money so they could afford to throw it to the wall and see what sticks. 90% of them would sink but it didn't matter. That doesn't fly here.

Then, they used that money to subsidise adoption, and then once the users were hooked into rent extraction as the OP mentioned. We call this process enshittification these days, and it's a really predatory business practice.

European companies don't do that as much because we have more guardrails against it, and more importantly we didn't have random cash sloshing up the walls. American could do that especially because of the petrodollar. Once the dollar loses its international status it will be a lot harder to do (and it already is due to the rising interest rates).

It was no surprise that exactly with the rising interest rates all the companies started tightening up their subscriptions. Netflix, amazon, all exploding in cost and introducing ads. Same with meta's platforms.