[epistasis]

I bake my own bread, so great, that's not a factory. But the pain de Genoesse, how is that not made in a factory? What size of bakery is OK?

Edit: and to take an example from the "official" definition: "Group 1 foods are unprocessed or minimally processed: nuts, eggs, vegetables, pasta." When people hear pasta, they think it's going to be made in a factory. I occassionally make pasta, but honestly prefer the dry stuff for its texture in most dishes, and nobody is making dried pasta at home of any good quality (see for example this amazing series of YouTube videos of an attempt at such https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWXz_CFEfPH2... )

Adding "pasta" to the group 1 list kind of upends any intuitive understanding of the groupings.

[magneticnorth]

Yes, I found the group description confusing as well. The group 4 description starts off with "when foods are refined, bleached ...".

I'm pretty certain the flour used to make standard grocery store pasta is both refined and bleached. Even if I make it at home, I'm using refined and bleached white flour.

And my understanding is that should be considered fairly processed - the refining makes it less fibrous and easier to digest, which spikes insulin levels and is bad for gut bacteria etc.

[SAI_Peregrinus]

Minor note: dried pasta is made with semolina flour, not white flour & eggs like many fresh pastas are. It's still a refined (germ removed) ground wheat flour, though not usually bleached.

[epistasis]

Exactly! And that's not to say that the idea of "ultraprocessed" doesn't ultimately turn up something extremely insightful and actionable for regular people. The concept just doesn't seem to be a useful one for regular people, yet.

[magneticnorth]

As someone who cooks a lot, I find the concept of "could I make this in my kitchen" to be a helpful guideline. I can tell a chipsahoy cookie is pretty different from anything I've ever made, whereas the ones at the local independently-owned bakery are more similar.

But making that judgement requires more cooking experience than a lot of people have, and executing on it requires the time & money to buy the more expensive stuff that has a shorter shelf life.