[ianbutler]

That's awesome! I love that energy, it's the opposite of the energy I was trying to talk about in the post actually, you're not trying to tell me why your app is the best thing in the world and spamming it everywhere when it has nothing to offer me or other people, and having not considered other people.

[tptacek]

Where by "spamming" you mean daring to post it to HN under a "Show HN" title.

[ianbutler]

Among other places sure, I pivoted off the Show HN strictly, but it's fair for you to raise this given your thread was inspiration.

Posting something to SHOW people without considering how people may want or need what you're showing is just bad etiquette anywhere frankly. If you're building for yourself that's great, maybe qualify it in your post because otherwise it's free game to judge poorly. Spam is inherently unwanted content, you don't get to decide what is wanted content the collective community does.

It's something many of us have learned building software for years that all the new people building are going to figure out for themselves. Just because you can build it doesn't mean anyone will care if you're trying to show it off and with the flood of new apps, it's fair game to discuss.

Edit: all of us -> many of us on the last paragraph

[tptacek]

This is exactly the sentiment I detected in the previous thread, where a small group of people seem to have decided what the etiquette of daring to post a Show HN is. I'm not sure I remember being consulted on whether you should be keeping these gates for the rest of us. My reaction is the same as it was when people tried to argue Show HN was only for open-source software: says you.

[ianbutler]

I'm not gate keeping anything, to do that I would have to make specific statements beyond "consider other people when you post something"

Right and my point is you (or i) will never be consulted, it happens emergently through community dynamics. No one sat in a group and decided this, Show HN in particular has always been selective. Different things are interesting to different sub groups and they select for different things. Show HN is not homogenous. My argument is not to not post, it's to post knowing who you hope to reach and why it would matter to them, don't just post to post, that is a large part of taste to me.

[internet2000]

> I'm not gate keeping anything,

Might be unintentional then, but the language in your post comes across as a textbook case of gatekeeping.

[sarchertech]

I think society could benefit from a little more gate keeping these days. IMO, we’ve swung way too far to the other direction. We all need a little friction and constraint.

Gate keeping isn’t inherently good, but I think Trump is essentially the right wing outcome of zero gate keeping.

[ianbutler]

I honestly tried to not inject my own standards into this and tried to stick around dynamics as much as possible. I think you shouldn't post to post, but if you've considered your audience and thought about something outside of yourself as to why someone may like this, earnestly, and not just kidding yourself, you are acting in good faith imo.

Similarly, I should have done more in the post to steer people way from the perception I'm shitting on them for building for themselves, that's great I have plenty of personal projects running at home that are just for me, if I ever decided to share them out I'd work to make sure its ready and valuable for people to receive.

[XenophileJKO]

Shaming, ridiculing. People that dare to create something you don't like. Maybe the right answer is if you don't like what people are sharing that they made.. YOU make something and share it and lead by example instead of complaining.

[ianbutler]

First I never did that.

Second, I've founded several companies, had customers, put out products to be judged by the market and raised capital. I'm more than qualified to put out an opinion here. Been there done that.

[anukin]

What’s wrong with just posting and then taking the feedback and improving? Why is taste or for that matter any arbitrarily decided “in thing” necessary for posting in show hn? Who is the arbitrator here?

[ianbutler]

Nothing, do that! It's not just about Show HN. If you're asking for feedback you're clearing a lot of the problem right there. These are not who I'm talking about. You cultivate some measure of taste right there actually, just by trying to learn about the people you are potentially building for. I am talking about people who post here, reddit, twitter, reddit again etc etc and never ask for feedback they assume their stuff is a gift to the rest of us.

[selridge]

Why don’t you tell them that they have no taste?

Seems to be what the essay implies.

[ianbutler]

Because right now they are actually being tasteful?

[selridge]

I suspect because it’s harder to defend your thesis to a person who is excited about what they made.

It’s super easy to talk about who has taste or not in the abstract. A lot harder to tell someone straight up they have no taste because of some idea you have.

[ianbutler]

Nope it's exactly what I said, by choosing not to put it out to all of us because its only for them, that is actually being tasteful. It's very simple.