[Argonaut998]

Press freedom !== entirety of freedom of speech

European politicians are calling every day to censor social media. People are arrested regularly for social media posts.

Censorship is absolutely an issue in Europe and it’s only getting worse. I welcome such an attitude as this.

[danlitt]

The US's low press freedom index is precisely because people are being legally intimidated for wrongthink. It is not limited to the press, either. Mahmoud Khalil (the Palestinian activist detained by ICE on fake immigration charges for his political speech) is a famous example, but there are many.

The US's "commitment to free speech" is nowadays not very much more noble than Russia's principled stand against economic sanctions.

[suddenlybananas]

Plenty of people in the UK are arrested for wrongthink. You might think that's justified (e.g. because it is hateful) but it is still arresting someone for speech.

[danlitt]

I didn't say that they weren't. Hundreds of people were arrested for opposing the proscription of Palestine Action. The UK's defence of free expression is not great.

What I did say is that the US's position is not as a defender of free speech either (and as Russia is not a defender of free trade). They have particular speech they like to promote (the KKK, stormfront) and particular speech they like to suppress (criticism of war crimes, books about being trans). Draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

[youngtaff]

Arrested for incitement not wrong think… if they had done the same thing in the street and there was evidence they would have been arrested too

[suddenlybananas]

Well, there was a labour councillor who said people should have their throats slit on camera in the street, and he was let off.

[MiiMe19]

If this is a real take you need to rethink your view on the world.

[danlitt]

Got anything substantive to say?

[k3vinw]

False equivalency. As a green card holder he does not share the same freedom of speech rights as that of a US citizen.

[danlitt]

Do I need to point out that the OP describes a US commitment to the free speech of Europeans?

[21asdffdsa12]

The worst part is that its "outsourced" to private organizations and NGOs - and thus the state claims its "not state driven" censorship. They want social stability- but have no grasp of the concept of that stability being only a leaky abstraction for situational stability. You can not claim the world is peaceful and utopia is at hand, sitting in a ski chalet in the alps- while the whole mountain slowly comes down with that house on it. Reality cant be reasoned away, the rain will fall, no matter how much laws there are against it.

[kosinus]

There are so so many reasons to get arrested for social media posts that have nothing to do with censorship.

[Argonaut998]

Be that as it may, people are being arrested for expressing wrong think

[bargainbin]

No, people are being arrested for making malicious communications. They would have suffered the same punishment if they had used email, letter, graffiti on a billboard.

You cannot go around threatening to harm people without repercussions.

[Gareth321]

"Malicious communications" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. This veteran was arrested for retweeting this meme (https://abuwjaawap.cloudimg.io/v7/_lgbtqnation-assets_/asset...).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11066477/Veteran-ar...

He was offered to undergo "re-education." You might not like this meme. You might find it offensive. But should he be arrested by several officers for it? Of course not. This is just one example of many people being being arrested and imprisoned for offending people. It is against the law to offend people in the UK.

[marbletiles]

He was arrested for refusing to allow officers to enter his home on a pre-agreed return visit to discuss the complaints:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/arrest_of_mr_darren_b...

This is why the Daily Mail causes rolled eyes (along with Spiked and the rest of the right-wing agitprop).

[Gareth321]

Re-read what you just linked. In the response from the JIMU:

"A 51-year-old man from Aldershot was arrested on suspicion of sending by public communication network an offensive, indecent, obscene, menacing message or matter."

This is the legal basis for the arrest. Without the retweet, police would not have had authority to turn up to his place of residence - twice - and demand entry. No doubt they preferred Brady voluntarily submit himself for interview at the station, but he refused, which I hope we can all agree is the morally correct position. No one should have police turn up outside their house - TWICE - because of a parody retweet.

[frumplestlatz]

Why on earth was he legally obligated to have that discussion in the first place?

Those complaints should have been laughed at and ignored.

[talideon]

Oh yes, the bastion of truth that is the Daily Mail.

Sorry, my eyes just rolled out if my head.

[Gareth321]

The story is widely reported:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-...

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irishman-arrested...

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/03/memes-police-matter...

https://www.hrla.org.au/uk_man_arrested_for_social_media_mem...

Is this normally how you evade things which make you uncomfortable? Attacking the source?

[foxglacier]

Just Google it. It's been reported on various news sites. eg:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-...

Maybe it's not on The Guardian or the BBC but it obviously doesn't fit their bias so you may have to accept other sources.

[Argonaut998]

Nope. People are certainly being arrested for speech (e.g. opinions) that would be protected by the first amendment in the US.

Guising it under a scary sounding law doesn’t change the nature of it.

[ben_w]

People are certainly being arrested *in the USA* for speech (e.g. opinions) that are theoretically protected by the first amendment.

Unfortunately, last I tried to look this up, I found that there simply do not exist useful and easy to find stats for "malicious communications" in the UK such that stalkers and people making death threats can be separated from mere political correctness.

And even with actual death threats, there's stuff like this, where I don't myself have a single sustained state of my own mind about how I would respond to such a tweet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial

[Argonaut998]

It’s bad now and not perfect for sure, but I doubt these instances would be upheld by the higher courts.

[arrrg]

The people in Europe have a different view of freedom of speech and that’s fine. Not everything that’s a slightly different perspective on freedom of speech and what that entails and includes is tyranny.

[Argonaut998]

I’m European and I do not. France and the UK especially come from the same liberal intellectual root as the USA. What we see today is a bastardisation of these principles in Europe. Only the US was smart enough to canonise it into law.

[suddenlybananas]

So there is censorship, you just think that it is good. That's fine! But you should own the position and justify it on its own terms instead of pretending that it doesn't count as censorship.

[junon]

Examples please.

[Argonaut998]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-...

[2] https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-...

”Margaret Dodd of one offence of improper use of a public communications network, contrary to section 127(2)(c) of the Communications Act 2003. This provides that a person commits an offence if “for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another [she] … persistently makes use of a public electronic network”.”

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/23/uk-police-le...

Regarding Graham Linehan who is by far the best example.

[matips]

Considering all forms of sharing information as freedom, USA have huge problem with copyrights. Copyright limits people right to speech to protect interest of corporations, same as ban of stalking or slanders limits freedom of speech to protect victims.

[mcv]

I think people getting arrested for social media posts is specifically a UK thing. That and Russia are the only European countries where I've heard of that happening.

In most European countries, you'd have to go pretty far to get in legal trouble for social media posts. It's not impossible, but that's also true in the US. There are and have always been limits to speech. Everywhere. Also in the US (and not just under Trump, although he'd definitely increasing government censorship).

* Threats

* Blackmail

* Libel/slander

These are all restricted by law, because they hurt, silence or coerce people. Hate speech does the exact same thing. It's ridiculous to call hate speech protected free speech, while threats and blackmail are not.

A far worse attack on free speech is banning or restricting criticism of the government. That is the primary reason for free speech protections, and yet that's the very thing that the current US government is attacking on an unprecedented scale. See for example recent attacks on Jimmy Kimmel and Steven Colbert. That's something that would be unimaginable in many European countries.

[intended]

I think nations should add content moderation as part of mandatory volunteer duties.

The online commons and tasks are too complex and absurd, and we have many people who value speech, who would be the ideal people to take on these tasks. Putting their values into action so to speak.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, so the moment people volunteer for this, they will themselves see whether the claims of misinformation and disinformation are overblown, and then vote accordingly.

Obviously speech is a super important part of our online lives, and should be treated as such.

[FatCat1979]

The last thing the world needs is a state mandated hoarde of european reddit moderators plaguing the internet. no thanks.

[intended]

Come now - why should it just be self selected volunteers or outsourced workers.

Even now on HN we are lucky with who moderates it but this should be more commmon.

And Mandatory service for your own nation. How else will you have a citizenry who can be plugged into their information economy.

[boudin]

This portal will just contain propaganda to serve the fascist agenda of the current US government.

Not saying that things are perfect in Europe but the US talking about freedom and freedom of speech sounds like a joke.