[jeroenhd]

> even a base brand new M4 Mac Mini

A base Mac Mini (256GB/16GB) would cost me €720 while a Minisforum MS-R1 (1TB/32GB) would cost me €559 (minus a 25 euro discount for signing up to their newsletter if you accept that practice).

Price to performance the Apple solution may be better, but the prices aren't similar at all.

Upgrading the Mac to also feature 1TB of storage and 32GB of RAM, the price rises by a whopping €1000 to €1719.

[inventor7777]

Yes, I was basing my estimate more on the US price of $600, which is basically the same, if you buy both at MSRP. (However, that means the Mac does not have 10G)

I did not realize the EU versions were that much more expensive.

I do agree about the RAM/storage prices though. It's only worth it if you want the raw power, where the Mac handily beats this.

[madduci]

Mac M4 have also the problem that you can't install whatever distro you want too, even if it is cheap. When they'll get out of support, there's no upgrade available anymore

[nonamenoslogan]

The MacMini will still be running in 5-7 years, reliably, and still have updates from Apple on the macOS side. It will still be running in 10+ years too should you keep it that long.

MinisForum makes disposable hardware. We used to use them for TV computers at work, and while they are cheap, they are fidgity with hardware and drivers, come with hacked-Windows Enterprise installed by default, and generally last for about 2 years before they hit the recycle pile.

[sgt]

559 vs 720? That's literally like a few coffees. I went to Amsterdam (assuming you're dutch) and I paid 5 euro for a coffee.

Go for the Mac Mini, the hardware incl thermal is also built exceptionally well. That's why you still have 20 year old Mac Minis still running as home servers etc.

[jeroenhd]

If you're spending 170 euros on coffee then you're either abnormally rich or abnormally bad with money for a Dutchman.

Without the ability to upgrade either storage or RAM, a 256GB SSD with 16GB RAM is quite useless for a home server. Minisforum doesn't offer any options with that little RAM and storage it seems (you can pick between barebones and 1TB models).

The bare minimum spec for the Mac Mini sits at an interesting price point, but if you use it for any more than the bare minimum it'll be pretty restrictive with how memory-hungry macOS has become. No Linux support to speak of also makes for a rather mediocre home server experience.

One interesting part I found out of Apple's European pricing is that after currency conversion and subtracting VAT, the European price is still equivalent to $700, which is $100 more than they charge within the US. Looks like a 1/6th price increase is all you need for consumer rights!

[sgt]

I spend about ZAR 1200 (or 60 EUR per month) on coffee at home but who knows with all my cappuccinos. It's not really cheaper here in South Africa. But thanks, you made me look at my own coffee consumption now and it's always good to know!

Indeed macOS is a bit memory hungry but... unified memory, the sheer speed those chips can move data around is ridiculous. And macOS is a proper workstation Unix.

You're right - it's not ideal for headless. But there are ways. Still less painful than running Windows as as server.

[ThatMedicIsASpy]

my i5 7500t, 8gb ram 24/7 1l 'server' disagrees.

my atom, 4gb,1tb hdd bare metal ovh server also disagrees.

[wink]

> a 256GB SSD with 16GB RAM is quite useless for a home server

Not that I would buy it new, no, but 16GB for a home server can be quite fine. If I didn't have the 2x3 TB NAS disks (sounds ridiculously small now, right) - that would actually be enough.

[Mashimo]

> 559 vs 720? That's literally like a few coffees. I went to Amsterdam (assuming you're dutch) and I paid 5 euro for a coffee.

When someone says he drank a few coffees, I would never have guessed it was 32.

[protimewaster]

I feel like the "that's just a few coffees" metric is getting out of hand. By this metric, my current work laptop, purchased used from a local used reseller, was "a few coffees".

Also, I'm surprised how often on here I see people argue about price differences that are literally as I spend on entire computers.

[protimewaster]

> That's why you still have 20 year old Mac Minis still running as home servers etc.

I often see statements like this made as if it's an exceptional characteristic of Macs. I've found that almost all computer hardware I buy has made it 20 years, though. Sure, a hard drive or something dies every once in a while, but most stuff gets retired because I just don't care to use it anymore, not because it doesn't work.

[lostmsu]

Exactly. Of all my hardware since 2003, which includes 5+ different GPUs that were mining and later training AI models almost non-stop the only things that stopped working and not just discarded for being too old/slow are 2 OCZ 2 SSDs which my guess would be had a bug in their firmware that caused a lockup.

[trvz]

And ironically, a special part failing and there being no replacement parts is more likely to happen on one of these NUCloids than a Mac mini.

So over the span of 20 years they’ll pay a multitude on these crappy computers than what the Mac mini costs once. May as well get a specced out Mac.

[taskforcegemini]

Isn't Apple also famous for not offering replacement parts other than replacing the whole thing and charging you accordingly?

[sgt]

In some cases yes, but having used Macs for decades and also working in companies with Macs for all the developers one thing is clear; these things don't easily break. Built extremely well.

(One exception being the GPU issues a few years back though on Intel MBP's)

[izacus]

Can you provide any more objective support outside of your obvious Apple fan vibes?

[fragmede]

Other than that whole butterfly keyboard on their laptops for several years, culimnating in a $50 million class-action lawsuit for laptops between 2015 and 2019, totally!

No, wait, there was also bend gate and the iphone battery thing as well.

Uhhhh something about airpod ANC crackling.

There's more I'm forgetting.

God why do I keep buying Apple shit. I'm in a toxic relationship with an abuser.

[daymanstep]

But you can't run most Linux distros on Mac hardware without doing hacks

[irusensei]

Depends on what you need it for. Love Mac minis but feature by feature the MS-R1 has more memory, ECC support and dual 10Gbe.

[inventor7777]

Agreed. I can definitely see the Minisforum being far more cost efficient if you're mostly doing high speed networking transfers, while the Mac is more cost efficient if you need more raw power.

[sgt]

The ECC is cool. I don't need that for homelab servers though. But it's good to know and Minisforum is certainly a great offering.