[ljsprague]

They sound like very loyal people who I would love to have as my compatriots.

[kettlecorn]

Many of the world's most intelligent and caring people are loyal to values over tribe.

[ljsprague]

Values don't reproduce; tribes do.

[ImPostingOnHN]

tribes don't reproduce; people do.

[AnimalMuppet]

Tribes reproduce as the people who make up the tribe reproduce.

Values reproduce as the people who hold them reproduce, plus as others adopt those values, minus as those who hold those values drop them.

But the US was supposed to be a country where values mattered more than tribe. "We hold these truths to be self evident", and all that, and if you accepted the values, you belonged. That was an imperfect ideal, but it was the ideal until rather recently. I'm not sure to what degree it still is.

[ljsprague]

Are we ever allowed to stop being a "values country" and just be a normal one? Or are we at least allowed to change our values? Are we allowed to make that decision for ourselves?

[ImPostingOnHN]

A country based on shared values is normal.

And we are of course allowed to change that, if that is what the people want, but a minority should not make that decision on behalf of the whole.

[AnimalMuppet]

If you want to change values like "equal rights" and "rule of law", you may be able to do so, but you probably have to amend the constitution to do it.

[Natfan]

they can't be your compatriots if you imprison them, nor if they've to death due to working without any funding, also know as "pay"

[Natfan]

s/they've to death/they've starved to death/

[kg]

Loyalty is earned. They don't owe me or you any loyalty if we mistreat them.

[ljsprague]

There's no mistreatment alleged though: the US is bad because it stopped funding their jobs.