[unyttigfjelltol]

> in the context of Persian … "marg bar Aamrikaa". If you ask the default/free model on ChatGPT to translate, it will simply tell you it means 'Death to America'. It won't tell you "marg bar ..." is a poetic way of saying 'down with ...'.

All this time the Persian chants only signified polite policy disagreement? Hmmm, something fishy about this….

Edit: isn’t the alleged double-meaning exactly how radicalized factions drag a majority to a conclusion they actively disagree with? Some in the crowd literally mean what they say, many others are being poetic and only for that reason join in. But when it reaches American ears, it’s literally a death wish (not the majority intent) and thus the extremists seal a cycle of violence.

[kranner]

Responding to your edit

> isn’t the alleged double-meaning exactly how radicalized factions drag a majority to a conclusion they actively disagree with? Some in the crowd literally mean what they say, many others are being poetic and only for that reason join in. But when it reaches American ears, it’s literally a death wish (not the majority intent) and thus the extremists seal a cycle of violence.

This is plausible, and again a case for more comprehensive translation.

In Hindi and Urdu (in India and Pakistan) we have a variant of this retained from Classical Persian (one of our historical languages): "[x] murdaabaad" ('may X be a corpse'). But it's never interpreted as a literal death-wish. Since there's no translation barrier, everyone knows it just means 'boo X'.

[selimthegrim]

They still tell you not to say it at the border ceremonies (Wagah etc.)

[kranner]

From the Wikipedia article on the slogan [1]

> معلوم هم هست که مراد از «مرگ بر آمریکا»، مرگ بر ملّت آمریکا نیست، ملّت آمریکا هم مثل بقیّهٔ ملّتها [هستند]، یعنی مرگ بر سیاستهای آمریکا، مرگ بر استکبار؛ معنایش این است.

"It is also clear that 'Death to America' does not mean death to the American people; the American people are like other nations, meaning death to American policies, death to arrogance; this is what it means.

Translation by Claude; my Persian is only basic-to-intermediate but this seems correct to me.

[1] https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%DA%AF_%D8%A8%D8%B...