[amunozo]

Wow, I would never expect that. Do all models behave like this, or is it just Gemini? One particular model of Gemini?

[jarenmf]

Gemini is really odd in particular (even with reasoning). Chatgpt still uses a similar religion-influenced language but it's not as weird.

[gwerbin]

We were messing around at work last week building an AI agent that was supposed to only respond with JSON data. GPT and Sonnet more or less what we wanted, but Gemma insisted on giving us a Python code snippet.

[otabdeveloper4]

> that was supposed to only respond with JSON data.

You need to constrain token sampling with grammars if you actually want to do this.

[written-beyond]

That reduces the quality of the response though.

[debugnik]

As opposed to emitting non-JSON tokens and having to throw away the answer?

[jgalt212]

Or just run json.dumps on the correct answer in the wrong format.

[written-beyond]

Don't shoot the messenger

[Der_Einzige]

THIS IS LIES: https://blog.dottxt.ai/say-what-you-mean.html

I will die on this hill and I have a bunch of other Arxiv links from better peer reviewed sources than yours to back my claim up (i.e. NeurIPS caliber papers with more citations than yours claiming it does harm the outputs)

Any actual impact of structured/constrained generation on the outputs is a SAMPLER problem, and you can fix what little impact may exist with things like https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.01103

Decoding is intentionally nerfed/kept to top_k/top_p by model providers because of a conspiracy against high temperature sampling: https://gist.github.com/Hellisotherpeople/71ba712f9f899adcb0...

[otabdeveloper4]

I use LLMs for Actual Work (boring shit).

I always set temperature to literally zero and don't sample.

[iugtmkbdfil834]

I honestly would like to hope people were more up in arms over this, but.. based on historical human tendencies, convenience will win here.

[cubefox]

Gemma≠Gemini