[ivan_gammel]

This war has already changed. Near-stalemate on the front lines, exchange of strikes on civilian infrastructure (Ukraine made to Belgorod what Russia made to Kiev). It‘s a nuclear war without nukes, aiming at strategic defeat without advancing armies. And Russia definitely has more resources for it.

[drysine]

>It‘s a nuclear war without nukes

No, it's not. Even Ukrainians rarely target civilians.

[ivan_gammel]

A few days ago Ukraine knocked out central heating infrastructure in Belgorod, a regional capital with 350k people, which is unlikely to be repaired until spring. Two civilians repairing it from previous strikes were killed. Whether this is rare or not, it doesn’t change anything about what I said about changing character of the war: both sides largely gave up on trying to win on the battlefield and now attack energy infrastructure of each other, putting pressure on civilian population.

[drysine]

Targeting dual-purpose infrastructure is not the same as targeting civilians. The infra can be repaired, people cannot be resurrected.

[ivan_gammel]

When you knock out primary energy source in a large city instead of attacking military consumers, it has one goal - terror. Most people suffering from it will be civilians. There will likely be deaths. Look at the recent terrorist attack in Berlin by far left extremists: blackout of a single district resulted in at least one known direct casualty. How many people will die of hypothermia or inability to get help being locked in a high rise residential building? This is happening now in many places in Ukraine as well as in border regions of Russia. I do think it’s the same as targeting civilians directly.

[drysine]

>When you knock out primary energy source in a large city instead of attacking military consumers, it has one goal - terror.

Not if that city's industry is contributing to the war effort.

>Most people suffering from it will be civilians. There will likely be deaths.

You can say that about Western sanctions on Russia too. How many people have died because of a single MRI scanner or cancer drug that couldn't be bought by a Russian hospital?

Was it the "nuclear war without nukes" since the day the West imposed blanket sanctions on Russian economy?

Or did that "nuclear war without nukes" started in 2014-2015 when the Ukraine cut electricity and water supply to Crimea? "It has one goal - terror", right?

[ivan_gammel]

I really don’t understand your point. Are you questioning the choice of metaphor?

Ukraine cutting supply of electricity and water to Crimea did demonstrate the attitude of the Ukrainian government to people it considered once their citizen. It obviously wasn’t a part of the current chapter of the war.

[don_esteban]

They do target civilians. It is just not convenient to show it in the western sources, so you don't know about it.

However, it is true that they do not do it on the scale Israel is doing.

[drysine]

They do, but rarely. And I'm Russian, I don't depend on Western sources.