[dbspin]

Great example of narrow rationality. Huge amount of Americas current problems can be traced back to a poorly educated population. Universal access to third level education, combined with a school system designed to educate - in direct opposition to current goal of producing labour units for corporate; would massively improve pretty much ever aspect of American life.

The market lens is myopic, the market cannot be expected to produce social goods in proportion to necessity - that's not any part of its function.

I agree that the student loan system is insane. Students need grants to cover cost of living while they focus on learning, education itself of course should be free.

[gruez]

>combined with a school system designed to educate - in direct opposition to current goal of producing labour units for corporate; would massively improve pretty much ever aspect of American life.

"producing labour units for corporate" at least pays the bills. What's the alternative? Education is for "finding yourself" or whatever? That's a nice platitude, but "finding yourself" with a film studies course doesn't pay the bills, and is arguably the reason why there's a student loan crisis in the first place.

[dbspin]

A liberal education serves a social function. It makes human beings.

There's a student loan crisis because US education is dominated by for profit colleges (in start contrast to most other countries) and because student loans lack ordinary consumer productions (in stark contrast to all other countries).

In the US students act as guarantors for debt obligations between the government and commercial institutions. The reverse of the usual arrangement.

[gruez]

>There's a student loan crisis because US education is dominated by for profit colleges

No it's not. Most students go to public or non-profit colleges, and most student loans is from government (not private) lenders.

[WalterBright]

> in direct opposition to current goal of producing labour units for corporate

I never understood this characterization. How do the schools implement a goal for producing labor units?

> education itself of course should be free

People don't value what they get for free. If you sign up for a course in welding, are you going to be more or less diligent in learning it if you have to pay the tuition?

[dbspin]

> People don't value what they get for free

No education is free, it's paid in time and effort. I value my degree because it was difficult, not because it had a cost attached. One that could be purchased without effort would have no value.

[WalterBright]

Paying tuition out of one's own pocket motivates one to learn the material.

[dbspin]

That's factually wrong - extrinsic demands decrease intrinsic motivation. There's a tonne of research on this. Similarly negative conditioning is less effective than positive.

[WalterBright]

> That's factually wrong

I don't buy that. Are you going to buy guitar lessons and then not show up?

Have you ever noticed how public school students trashed their textbooks that they were handed for free?

People don't value things they get for free. It's human nature.