[jeroenhd]

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote for the national government. The solution: become a citizen. If you've lived somewhere long enough to lose track of your home country (legally at least), getting citizenship shouldn't be all that hard.

The voting pass handed to the author to vote on someone else's behalf clearly states the requirements. A Dutch passport, ID, or driver's license is required. Polling booths are run by volunteers and they have hard enough of a time already checking the validity of Dutch ID, adding 27 other forms of ID will only make it easier to bypass the electoral protections we have.

Schengen, the EU, and the EEA may have made working abroad exceptionally easy, but working abroad you're still a guest in another country. If you've lived somewhere long enough to forget to vote in your home country, maybe it's time to reevaluate what your home country really is.

[repelsteeltje]

> Polling booths are run by volunteers and they have hard enough of a time already checking the validity of Dutch ID, adding 27 other forms of ID will only make it easier to bypass the electoral protections we have.

Not sure about this one. For municipal elections in the Netherlands, you need to live in a particular municipal to vote. That means: even non-eu expats are eligible. I have had colleagues with UK, US and Turkish passports that voted (or could have voted) in Amsterdam for local representatives.

[jeroenhd]

They can definitely vote in most local Dutch elections, though that ability differs per EU member state. As long as you have a valid registration with the municipality, you're eligible.

The example given wasn't about casting their own vote, though, but voting for someone else by proxy (volmacht). For that, you need to take someone else's voting pass, a copy of their ID (may be expired up to a certain amount of years), and a form of your own, valid, Dutch identification.

That last part is where it went wrong: they didn't have valid Dutch ID so the vote by proxy was rejected.

[dariosalvi78]

but rules for citizenship are all different and are being made harder and harder because, well, that's what sells today. Also some countries (cough, Germany, cough) have incredibly stupid rules where you have to give up your own citizenship in order to get a new one.

[jeroenhd]

I think it's perfectly normal to expect someone to give up their old citizenship when becoming citizen in a different country. When you become a citizen, that country is responsible for getting you out of international conflicts and arranging passports (which are essentially documents that say "you should let this person in because of the good relationship our two governments have"), and in turn you're expected to turn up for the draft and decide in national policy.

There are certainly countries where gaining citizenship is a challenge, but the Dutch terms for EU migrants the minimum requirements ("speaking the language somewhat fluently, having lived there legally for five years, filling out paperwork") aren't that difficult. Getting through the process takes effort, for sure, but it's not the challenge most people in the world will face (the "living in the country legally for five years" part, mostly; without student visas or special deals between your old government and the Dutch government, you're not likely to get a work visa as any random person on earth).

[dariosalvi78]

It's clear to me that you don't have the experience of being an immigrant.

There is nothing "normal" in expecting to renounce to a previous citizenship if you gain another one [1]. As an Italian citizen living in Sweden I obtained the Swedish citizenship (fortunately before the current government makes it way harder) but I'd never give up my Italian one. I "feel" Italian and owe my country a lot and my happily go back at some point, but I also feel like having the Swedish citizenship is useful, and allows me to vote in a country where I have chosen to live for a good chunk of my life.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

[jeroenhd]

> I "feel" Italian and owe my country a lot and my happily go back at some point

Then that settles it, no? You're an Italian citizen who happens to work abroad, not Swedish citizen material.

> Swedish citizenship is useful

That's probably where the friction lies, countries see citizenship as something of greater importance than something to obtain because it's "useful".

[dariosalvi78]

I would say that it's not just useful, it should be a basic right. In my case as an EU citizen, Swedish citizenship gives me little more than I already have (voting rights, easier to get passport), but for those who come from outside the EU, citizenship is a question that affects all their life and of their family.

Just go and ask any immigrant friend if you have any. Just stop conflating citizenship with any sort of identity or morality, there is nothing like that.

[cr1895]

In NL the obligation to renounce is pretty arbitrary. There are a number of circumstances where it is allowed to have two nationalities, such as through marriage to a Dutch citizen.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[chebureki]

Germany has allowed dual citizenship since June 2024.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Reform_...