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by fcanesin 119 days ago
The harness is the model "body", it's weight the cognition. Like in nature they develop together and the iteration of natural selection works at both.

If smaller labs (Zai, Moonshot, deepseek, mistral..) get together and embrace a harness, like opencode for example, as a consortium just by the power of "evolution across different environments" they might hit jackpot earlier than bigger labs.
2 comments
TZubiri 119 days ago
But they rely on distilling the output of american leader models. Which will probably train against their own harness.

Someone has to do the baseline training, development, and innovation. it can't be clones all the way down

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yowlingcat 118 days ago
It goes the other way around as well. DeepSeek has made quite a few innovations that the US labs were lacking (DSA being the most notable one). It's also not clear to me how much of distilled outputs are just an additional ingredient of the recipe rather than a whole "frozen dinner" so to speak. I have no evidence to say it's one way or the other, but my guess is the former.
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robotresearcher 119 days ago
Why not? Humans are (very nearly) clones all the way down.
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lillecarl 119 days ago
Citation needed, SOTA labs surely has technical protection and legaleese against using them for training. It's been done in th past but what indicates this is still the case?
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TZubiri 119 days ago
>Citation needed, SOTA labs surely has technical protection

They have unlimited APIs, as long as you pay, how would they control how you use them?

> and legaleese against using them for training.

It's a whole different jurisdiction, and in general chinese companies care way less about copyright infringement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_consumer_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_pr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93United_States_tr...

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cyanydeez 119 days ago
this didn't stop the millions of copyrighted works used to train the models.
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troyvit 118 days ago
Mistral recently came out with their own harness (vibe) and I feel like it was a massive missed opportunity vs throwing in with with aider or opencode.
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