[Juliate]

For producers, ignoring a SHOULD is riskier because it shifts the burden to every consumer.

For consumers, ignoring a SHOULD mostly affects their own robustness.

But here Google seems to understand it as a MUST... maybe the scale of spam is enough to justify it. Users are stuck between two parties that expect the other to behave.

[zer00eyz]

> maybe the scale of spam is enough to justify it.

This is 100 percent the case, and why these things are this way.

If you wanted to make email two point oh, I dont think it would look a lot like what we have today.

[pyrale]

> This is 100 percent the case, and why these things are this way.

But gmail accepts emails without message-id on personal mailboxes apparently.

[tracker1]

I think a mail 2.0 would be notify and pull based.... you notify a recipient's mail server that there's a message from <address> for them, then that server connects to the MX of record for the domain of <address> and retrieves <message-id> message.

Would this make mass emails and spam harder, absolutely. Would it be a huge burden for actual communications with people, not so much. From there actual white/black listing processes would work all that much better.

[eli]

Is the idea that you could decide from the envelope whether you want to even bother fetching the message? Besides that I'm not sure I see the advantage

[tracker1]

You have to have a working mail server attached to a domain to be able to send mail... that's the big part. Right now, email can more or less come to anywhere from anywhere as anyone. There are extensions for signing connections, tls, etc... but in general SMTP at it's core is pretty open and there have been efforts to close this.

It would simply close the loop and push the burden of the messages onto the sender's system mostly.

And yes, you can decide from the envelope, and a higher chance of envelope validity.

[eli]

Like it proves you have the ability to receive mail at the domain you're sending from? I feel like SPF/DKIM already does this

[tracker1]

SPF doesn't prove that... I can send through SendGrid with an SPF record, doesn't mean I've got a server configured to receive mail... for that matter, it actually makes it so you HAVE to be responsible for the mail system and cannot outsource sending separately from receiving. Again, shifting the burden enough to where other measures of dealing with bad actors are more effective.

[DANmode]

https://jmap.io

[tracker1]

jmap is the communication between a mail client and shared directory/mail services on a server. It does not include server to server communications (that I am aware of) for sending mail to other users/servers.

[DANmode]

Couldn’t resist replying to:

> If you wanted to make email two point oh, I dont think it would look a lot like what we have today.