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by tptacek 4982 days ago
Nobody uses EventMachine to manage daemon processes. Subprocesses in EventMachine aren't "equated to popen"; they exist for the sole purpose of doing evented I/O popen-style. I'd be careful about calling a developer "incompetent" because they write something that doesn't admit to arbitrary use cases.
1 comments
gchpaco 4982 days ago
I'm being elliptic about why here because I don't think I can talk about the internal architecture of that system in public, but warning people off one particularly stupid third party bug that we fixed in our internal fork is not, I believe, a problem. Anyway, we certainly did use it to manage daemon processes, although not deliberately; we had a daemon that communicated with external software about system events, and running shell scripts was part of that. We didn't necessarily anticipate folks running 'service httpd start' in those shell scripts, but it was not an inherently unreasonable thing to do.

And this isn't "arbitrary use cases"; this is an explicitly supported function that is completely contrary to good practice and sane behavior and, to boot, has the ability to arbitrarily kill programs for impenetrable reasons and block for significant periods of time (the central sin of event driver programming). You can't tell me that if you saw something like this in a random crypto library you wouldn't immediately tell everybody to stop using it; why should EM's developers get a pass for their, yes, incompetently written popen? I would actually be considerably happier if it wasn't in the library at all; at least then it wouldn't be wrong.

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tptacek 4982 days ago
Do you have other examples of how badly constructed EventMachine is, or is it just that you can't use their process I/O stuff as a daemon manager?

I was using Adam Langley's net/ssl code in Golang to build an HTTPS proxy, and only after several hours of hair-pulling did I discover that Langley hadn't implemented the compat SSL2 handshake that Firefox uses with proxies. net/ssl in Go was, for no good reason other than an omission, unsuited for use as an HTTPS proxy. Should I say net/ssl was incompetently written? That seems like a bad idea to me.

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