[jenius]

This is an abomination. Do we honestly need a "framework" to use the background-color and float properties? Not to mention that the design here is very poorly executed, and as someone else mentioned the responsiveness doesn't even work.

I'm not trying to be a hater or a downer, I just can't believe that this is the state of web design right now. As Gob would say, "COME ON!"

[scanr]

> This is an abomination

That's pretty rude.

> Do we honestly need a "framework" to use the background-color and float properties?

This story is on the front page, so there are obviously some folk who would. I quite like it, and if it improves as a result of positive feedback, that'll be great. Your feedback has not been positive.

> I'm not trying to be a hater or a downer

Yes, yes you are. Or perhaps you meant "I am being a hater and a downer but I'm hardly having to put any effort into it".

> I just can't believe that this is the state of web design right now.

I can't believe this is the state of commenting right now. Ah, wait, no, this is just your comment and is not 'the state of commenting'.

As I would say, "COME ON!".

[weego]

He might be blunt, but is correct. You only need look at the terrible fidelity of the back arrow being used to see that it's not had much care and attention.

On top of that almost every component skin has issues that make it feel not right, like the drop down menu having gaps in the horizontal rule margins.

And in general, I dislike the approach to online discussion that everything has to be positively spun. This isn't very good, maybe it will be soon or maybe never, why should we not be able to air a valid negative opinion?

[scanr]

On reflection, I could have worded that part of my comment better. I completely agree that constructive criticism is useful. I just think that we can be civil about it.

[jenius]

Perhaps suggestions of how this could be made more civil while retaining the criticism would have been a better way to word the comment - want to take another shot?

Stuff like "one good thing, one bad thing" or any type of sugar coating is not relevant. We are (I hope) adults here and should be able to accept criticism without needing an ego boost along with it.

There are in addition a number of inaccuracies in your comment:

- "Your feedback has not been positive." - It wasn't supposed to be positive. I thought that much was fairly clear.

- "Yes, yes you are" (reply to i'm not trying to be a hater) - No, I wasn't. I was making a critical comment, but I wasn't trying to be a hater. You cannot tell me what I was trying to do.

[jasonlotito]

> - "Yes, yes you are" (reply to i'm not trying to be a hater) - No, I wasn't. I was making a critical comment, but I wasn't trying to be a hater. You cannot tell me what I was trying to do.

You weren't trying to be a hater. But you can try to not be a hater, and still end up as one.

> Perhaps suggestions of how this could be made more civil while retaining the criticism would have been a better way to word the comment - want to take another shot?

More commentary like this:

> the responsiveness doesn't even work.

This was the only part of your comment that was worth while, or worded in a civil way. Rather than spew insults, be specific. As they say in writing, show, don't tell. It's poor to say it's an abomination. Rather, simply explain why.

> Stuff like "one good thing, one bad thing" or any type of sugar coating is not relevant.

It's not. And that method doesn't make civil criticism, regardless. After all: "Your font choice makes it easy to read, but what I'm reading is still an abomination" is rude and unhelpful.

The best criticism is specific then. Everything else is just opinion, and generally worthless. Opinions that merely insult are just hateful.

Hopefully this helps.

[scanr]

The updated wording would have been to replace the word 'positive' with 'constructive'.

I'm curious, if you look back at your original comment, do you not think that it is rude / insulting as opposed to constructive?

[Supreme]

> That's pretty rude.

He's entitled to his opinion and has the right to criticize whatever he wants, however he wants. If you don't like it, why not just move on.

Positive feedback is not the only useful type of feedback. If someone suggested, say, developing a new site on the Gopher protocol then the appropriate response is to tell them that it's a stupid idea, mainly because it is a stupid idea.

There is much more to be gained from emotionally disconnecting yourself from the fruits of your labour than it is to always, without fail be positive about everything. It is folly to pick yang over yin or vice-versa.

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people will have this emotional reaction to this project and not telling the author in order to protect their feelings is going to hurt their success in the long run.

I feel that being rude is insulting the person. Being honest is insulting the work (if one honestly feels that it is unworthy enough to be treated as such).

> Yes, yes you are. Or perhaps you meant "I am being a hater and a downer but I'm hardly having to put any effort into it".

A hater is someone who hates out of prejudice. For example, hating a celebrity because one is jealous of their wealth or think that they do not deserve what they have. I do not detect any prejudice here, just an honest reaction to something.

The most ironic thing about your post is that you mimic Grandparent's tone, which you yourself label as rude and throw it back at him. Surely a mature response is to respond in a way which you find acceptable, not simply stoop down to what you perceive to be a lower and, ultimately, unacceptable level?

[mikeash]

> He's entitled to his opinion and has the right to criticize whatever he wants, however he wants. If you don't like it, why not just move on.

Why does that attitude not equally apply to critiques of this guy's comment? Why don't you just move on?

[givan]

This also applies for you and me.

[mikeash]

Yeah, except I'm not the guy saying that somebody should just be quiet and move on.

[Supreme]

> Yeah, except I'm not the guy saying that somebody should just be quiet and move on.

You're one of us too:

> Why don't you just move on?

And yes, I realise the irony of my first comment. I'm just going to take my own advice and move on now.

[ceejayoz]

> Do we honestly need a "framework" to use the background-color and float properties?

No, that's why the framework appears to include a lot more than that.

[jenius]

On the contrary, it may include a lot more than that but it appears not to.

[ceejayoz]

Only if you ignore the various links to demos, documentation, etc.

[MrUnknown]

but it does, so what's your point?

[Johngibb]

Please, be constructive instead of just dismissive. A nasty tone doesn't help anyone nor does it encourage trying new things.

[jenius]

I tried to be constructive, but I honestly couldn't find a single good thing about this. The execution was poor, and the entire idea of making a 'framework' out of boxes with background colors is ridiculous.

I do apologize for the harshness, especially if it offended people, and I'm all for trying new things, but something like this should absolutely not be up on the popular page of hacker news. This is an amateur attempt at a framework that was very poorly done. Is that honestly deserving of more than 100 upvotes?

[Johngibb]

I think your criticism is well founded.

That said, the author did put work into something, document it, and share it freely with the community - and for that reason, I'd rather not see someone hurt their feelings calling their work an 'abomination.'

I just think with a slightly different tone you could have made the same point in a way that would show the OP some brutal honesty but without discouraging them.

[jenius]

good reply and good point. thank you

[Avalaxy]

The greatest thing about this is that it is open source. You can add your own contributions: https://github.com/aozora/bootmetro

[jessedhillon]

You might have missed this relevant piece of information:

> Latest version: 0.5

[wickedbass]

Touche! Some of these css frameworks are getting ridiculous... CSS is easy, why do we need frameworks for it?

And wow I hope this is not the direction web design is headed!

[funknut]

I appreciate CSS frameworks for taking some of the complexities out of tedious tasks. Without pre-built frameworks, I would still be using my own half-baked custom boilerplates. I agree with your sentiment about the direction of design. Am i the only one who is already sick of all the metro copies out there? I have never wanted to design a web site/app that looks exactly like another brand, e.g. Microsoft's Metro.