[turtlesdown11]

>Yes, I think this is counting on the ignorance that people will believe there are "drone operators" at the console, halfway across the world, who are driving our cars [A.I. stands for "Actually Indians"?]

... >Honestly this model doesn't make any sense, as Waymo has set it up so that the only driver is the Waymo Driver making decisions, because the Waymo Driver is the only one who's privy to 100% the real-time data.

Their competitor Telsa does use teleoperation in their "robotaxis"? So what is ignorant about believing it to be the case in this scenario?

https://electrek.co/2024/11/25/tesla-remote-control-team-rob...

[RupertSalt]

The article you link literally says that Tesla's teleoperation is the same kind as Waymo's, and there is nothing that the company has ever deployed that will enable "remote drone operators" so I don't know what your point is.

Tesla and Waymo both offer systems to provide sensor insight to remote observers, and the remote observers can send suggestions and nudges to the vehicles. The general public does not understand the nuance here, and they imagine someone is sitting with a steering wheel and pedals, like a radio-controlled toy or a USAF Reaper drone.

[lern_too_spel]

The article says this about the job:

> Our remote operators are transported into the device’s world using a state-of-the-art VR rig that allows them to remotely perform complex and intricate tasks. Working with hardware teams, you will drive requirements, make design decisions and implement software integration for this custom teleoperation system.

The article notes that this is very unlike what Waymo is doing:

> This should enable Tesla to launch a service similar to Waymo without having to achieve a “superhuman level of miles between disengagement.”

[RupertSalt]

  > similar to Waymo

  > taking a page out of Waymo’s book

  > something that [...] Waymo has already deployed

  > one thing that Tesla is taking from Waymo’s approach

  > interesting to learn the level of teleoperation Tesla plans to deploy

Basically, this article you linked is reporting only on a job description. The job posting is for an engineer, not a teleoperator! The job posting touts the VR environment that will be used to "drive requirements", not vehicles! What company would hire a highly-skilled and credentialed engineer to be a drone pilot? It is absurd.

The general public may not fully understand this nuance. The entire point of autonomous operation is to remove humans from the decision loop and permit the machine to use its own sensors to make rapid decisions in real-time. As autonomy is refined, remote operators will intervene less and less. And as sensors are refined, humans will have less insight than the AI onboard, due to our inability to directly process those signals.

The author does not know "what level" of teleops Tesla wants to implement. But why even attempt to implement FSD or top-level autonomy, if your operators are doing the driving anyway?

This would never scale. We already discussed the incident where Waymo's disengagement overwhelmed their remote techs and it was an undesirable edge-case. In order to operate a robotaxi fleet, the disengages and takeovers need to be safe, legal, and rare.

[lern_too_spel]

> The job posting touts the VR environment that will be used to "drive requirements", not vehicles!

No, it says it will bring the user into the vehicle. They are driving requirements for building this telepoerating system. The role description couldn't be more clear.

> What company would hire a highly-skilled and credentialed engineer to be a drone pilot?

They're hiring an engineer to build the VR driving system, not to operate it.

> But why even attempt to implement FSD or top-level autonomy, if your operators are doing the driving anyway?

Obviously, they would like to remove the need for the teleoperators, just like Waymo would like to remove the need for its driver assistants, but Tesla is nowhere near being able to do that.

> This would never scale.

You know it. I know it. This is just to fool Cathie Wood into believing that robotaxi works for long enough until they can get Optimus working. Then if they're behind on Optimus, they'll presumably have backup teleoperators for those in small deployments (just like they're doing with robotaxi now) until they can get the next big thing working or until SpaceX buys out Tesla.

[RupertSalt]

I'm sorry sir, but you cannot simply walk into the Argument Clinic and begin agreeing with everyone!