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by cyberax 130 days ago
DHS/ICE is in a weird constitutional spot. Most immigration violations in the US are _civil_ violations. So the Fourth Amendment is less applicable. It's also why detained immigrants don't automatically get the right to be represented by a lawyer.

ICE/DHS technically are just acting as marshals, merely ensuring that defendants appear at court proceedings and then enforcing court decisions (deportations).
3 comments
epiccoleman 130 days ago
It's not really that the 4th amendment is less applicable, it's that the procedural protections are lower in civil proceedings.

I think it's a pretty big undersell to describe ICE as "marshals" too - they've got plenty of discretion in how they prioritize targeted people and who they detain. They are not just a neutral party executing court orders.

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cyberax 130 days ago
In theory yes, but in practice it's more unclear. There are conflicting Supreme Court precedents, that weaken the Fourth Amendment in cases where criminal penalties don't apply. Asset foreiture is another example.

> I think it's a pretty big undersell to describe ICE as "marshals" too - they've got plenty of discretion in how they prioritize targeted people and who they detain. They are not just a neutral party executing court orders.

Yep. That's also a difference between theory and practice.

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ImPostingOnHN 130 days ago
They're actually abducting people from court proceedings (and other scheduled official proceedings) and violating court decisions.
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wormius 130 days ago
[flagged]
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cyberax 130 days ago
??

What exactly do you disagree with? Most immigration violations are a civil matter (USC section 8). There are criminal violations like human trafficking or illegal entry. But if you came into the US with a visa and then overstayed, you're not committing anything criminal.

And even illegal entry is a misdemeanor, the maximum punishment is at most 6 months in jail. So yeah, ICE and DHS _technically_ don't have more power than regular marshals for most immigration cases.

Which should scare you, btw. There are plenty of civil violations that can be similarly weaponized in future.

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