[fouc]

I wish mac users would stop using homebrew and use a real package manager with actual dependency management.

At the very least, replace homebrew with something like devbox which has `devbox global` for globally managing packages, it uses nix under the hood, and it's probably the simplest most direct replacement for homebrew.

[pram]

I don't agree this is an issue and I'll tell you why: Homebrew isn't responsible for keeping the system functional like apt or pacman, it's a supplemental thing. I've also found it's useful in this capacity on Linux specifically with LTS distros, I can get the latest fzf or zoxide or whatever without having to add some shady repo.

[thewebguyd]

This is how I see/use brew as well, and being able to just blow the directory away anytime and start over if need be is nice.

It's not a "system" package manager, nor was it ever meant to be. Its supplemental. I've also found it valuable on the various immutable linux distros.

[AnonC]

I use MacPorts because of older versions of Homebrew having a weird and insecure design. [1] I think some of those design issues may have been fixed, but I’m wary of Homebrew.

[1]: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2019/04/26/thoughts-on-macos-pack...

[skybrian]

It's not necessary because Mac applications shouldn't have any dependencies other than the OS. (Whatever additional libraries they use should be included.) This should also be true of basic developer tools. Once you're in a particular ecosystem, tools like deno, npm, or uv can handle their own dependencies.

Alternatively, you could do development in a container and use apt-get there. That's probably safest now that we're using coding agents.

[TheDong]

I wish the mac users would switch to a real OS, linux, so that software companies would release linux versions of stuff first.

Codex, Claude Desktop, etc etc all starting out as "macOS exclusive" feels so silly when they're targeting programmers. Linux is the only OS a programmer can actually patch and contribute to, and yet somehow we've got a huge number of developers who don't care about having a good package manager, don't care about being able to modify their kernel, don't care about their freedom to access and edit the code of the software they rely on to work...

It's depressing how much of the software industry is just people on macbooks using homebrew to install a newer version of bash and paying $5 for "magnet" to snap windows to the corners since their OS holds them in a prison where they can't simply build themselves a tiling window manager in a weekend.

The OS is core to your tools and workflows, and using macOS cedes your right to understand, edit, and improve your OS and workflows to a company that is actively hostile to open source, and more and more hostile to users (with a significant increase in ads and overly priced paid services over the years).

Anyway, yeah, homebrew sucks. At least nix works on macOS now so there's an okay package manager there, but frankly support for macOS has been a huge drag of resources on the nix ecosystem, and I wish macOS would die off in the programming ecosystem so nix could ditch it.

[suby]

I harbor similar sentiments, but I understand why OpenAI, Anthropic, Zed, etc begin with a macOS version. They're able to target a platform which is a known quantity and a good jumping off point to Linux.

I'm writing software for Linux myself and I know that you run into weird edge case windowing / graphical bugs based on environment. People are reasonably running either x11 or wayland (ecosystem is still in flux in transition) against environments like Gnome, KDE, Sway, Niri, xfce, Cinnamon, labwc, hyprland, mate, budgie, lxqt, cosmic... not to mention the different packaging ecosystem.

I don't blame companies, it seems more sane to begin with a limited scope of macOS.

[epiecs]

The problem is that right now I have to choose the lesser of 2 evils. I hate what W11 has become. I only use it for games at the moment and the only reason is that some games Apex/BF6 do not run under proton because of their anticheat.

And I also hate what modern Macos is heading towards. I'm still ignoring/canceling the update on both my devices for the new "glass" interface.

And a thinkpad running Linux is just not doing it for me. I want my power efficient mac hardware.

Truth be told I just want to have my mbp running Linux. But right now it's not yet where it needs to be and I am most certainly not smart enough to help build it :(

[jacquesm]

> And a thinkpad running Linux is just not doing it for me. I want my power efficient mac hardware.

I'm using a decade old thinkpad running linux and it is definitely 'doing it for me'. And I'm not exactly a light user. Power efficient mac hardware should be weighed against convenience and price. The developer eco-system on Linux is lightyears ahead of the apple one, I don't understand why developers still use either Windows or the Mac because I always see them struggle with the simplest things that on Linux you don't even realize could be a problem.

Other OSs feel like you're always in some kind of jailbreak mode working around artificial restrictions. But sure, it looks snazzy, compared to my chipped battle ax.

[slyzmud]

> And a thinkpad running Linux is just not doing it for me. I want my power efficient mac hardware.

Are you talking about the battery? I bought a T16 AMD a month ago with the 86Wh battery and it lasts between 8 and 12 hour depending on the usage. Not as much as a macbook but enough to not worry too much about it. New intel ones are supposed to be much better on power efficiency.

It's off course one level bellow on the mac on that regard (and others maybe too), but if you want to use linux I think the trade-off is worth it.

[cs02rm0]

It's Apple, not the users, that need to make that switch in the first instance. I'd love to use Linux again but I'm not leaving Apple hardware for it, or accepting poor software support for recent hardware.

[vladvasiliu]

It's a question of priorities, I guess.

I admit I love the mbp hardware, but I can't stand macos anymore. So when my work computer was up for replacement, I didn't think twice and went with a PC, the latest thinkpad p14s. Everything works out of the box on Linux.

Is it as nice as a mac? No, especially the plastic case doesn't feel as nice under the hands as a mac's aluminum, the touchpad is quite good but worse than a mac's, and there are some gaps around the display hinge. But the display itself is quite nice (similar resolution, oled, although not as bright as a mac's), it's silent and it's plenty fast for what I do. I didn't pay for it, so I don't directly care about this point in this situation, but it also cost around half of what an equivalent mbp would have cost.

I also haven't tried the battery life yet, but it should hold at least as well as my 5-yo hp elitebook, which still held for around 5 hours last year. I basically never use it for more than an hour unplugged, so battery life is low on my priorities.

[TheDong]

I dunno, I'm pretty happy with my thinkpad. Even if I could run Linux flawless on a macbook (which you can't unfortunately) I'd still take the thinkpad hardware over a macbook.

A macbook air is 1.25kg, and my thinkpad is 910g, and I can really feel that difference. The thinkpad keyboard also feels ever so slightly better too... and Linux working well is worth more than pretty much anything else.

[pixl97]

>but I'm not leaving Apple hardware for it,

It's ok, Apple knows this and will lock it's OS down to an iPhone like OS step by step until you're boxed in a nice little prison, and you'll accept it.

Also you'll pay them 30% on every transaction you do on said computer.

[fouc]

I'd say support for linux has improved an incredible amount compared to 5-10 years ago. I'm often pleasantly surprised when ever a linux version of something is available because I'm used to not expecting that haha.

[marxisttemp]

MacPorts has existed since 2002 and was invented by Jordan Hubbard, who created the original FreeBSD ports system and was also employed on Apple's UNIX team.

[philistine]

Tell me which OS you’re using that allows you to code your own viable tiling manager in a weekend?

Is it really a sin to pay for software to augment your OS? Like programmers make their living selling that and it’s horrible?

[kahnclusions]

The package management story on Linux is hideously bad. The next generation replacements are all over the place (do I use snaps? Flatpak?). No one is going to learn Nix if it means you need to become a programmer just to install something.

The graphics story on Linux also sucks. I recently tried to convert my Windows gaming machine to Linux (because I hate W11 with a burning passion). It does work, but it’s incredibly painful. Wayland, fractional scaling, 120+ Hz, HDR. It’s getting better thanks to all the work Valve etc are putting in, but it’s still a janky messy patchwork.

MacOS just works. It works reliably. Installing things is easy. Playing games is easy. I’m able to customize and configure enough for my needs. I love it and I hope it sticks around because there is no way in hell I would move my work machines over to Linux full time.

[vladvasiliu]

> Wayland, fractional scaling, 120+ Hz, HDR

What's wrong with those? I don't have a single screen which does 120 Hz + HDR, but I'm typing this on a 120 Hz laptop, with variable refresh rate, at 125% scaling, and everything works great with Plasma (haven't tried anything else). I also have an external HDR screen, but it only does 60 Hz. It works great, too, doing HDR on it but not on the laptop screen (running at the same time, of course). They also run at different scaling (125% and 100%).

Now I don't know how to confirm that VRR is actually doing anything, but I can tell there's a difference between setting the monitor to 60 and to 120 Hz. HDR on the other screen also produces a clear difference.

This is all running from integrated intel graphics, maybe with other GPUs it's more of a crapshoot, no idea.

[marxisttemp]

MacPorts was created by the creator of the original FreeBSD ports system who was also an Apple employee. It ought to be everyone's first choice for package management on macOS.

[comex]

Huh? Homebrew supports and frequently uses dependencies between formulae. It’s a bit janky around upgrades in my experience, but you’re going to have to clarify what you mean.

[fouc]

Dependency management means the ability to have more than 1 version of the dependency installed, under the same package name.

i.e. Let's say you install a bunch of homebrew packages, everything is working. Then 6 months later you go to install another package - homebrew likes to upgrade all your packages (and their dependencies) willy nilly.

And if it breaks shit, there's no way to downgrade to a specific version. Sometimes shit broke because the newer package is actually a broken package, or sometimes it's because the dev environment was depending on a specific version of that package.

There's basically no way to have multiple versions of the exact same package installed unless they use their hacky workaround to create additional packages with the version number included in the package name.

[pjmlp]

I never use it when I can have my way.

The UNIX in macOS is good enough for my needs, and I manually install anything extra that I might require.