[loeg]

Nothing in the article really substantiates the headline (currently "The First Sodium-Ion Battery EV IS a Winter Range Monster").

The EV described in the article has a standardized range of 250 miles. This isn't a range monster in any condition. There is some gesturing that Sodium batteries don't require as much active heating in cold conditions. But nothing is quantified.

As usual with sci-tech broadly and batteries specifically: it's exciting that sodium batteries are coming to market; we can be optimistic that maybe in the future they will provide lots of range, or be less expensive, or maybe less flammable than today's lithium batteries. But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality.

[idontwantthis]

> Unlike LFP or nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) packs, it reportedly avoids severe winter range loss, retaining more than 90% of its range at -40 degrees C (-40 degrees F). Power delivery is also said to remain stable at temperatures as low as -50 degrees C (-58 degrees F).

That is exactly the substance of the headline.

[loeg]

It doesn't quantify winter range. It gestures at possible benefit; without comparison to the state of the art, it's not especially meaningful. Nevermind that losing less than 10% of 250 miles is not a ton of range.

[idontwantthis]

The absolute range is not the point. You can increase absolute range for any battery by having a bigger battery. The point is the low percentage lost due to cold.

[loeg]

Again, it does not compare this against the state of the art. We know how to heat battery technologies that are more sensitive to lower temperatures. So the interesting question would be, how does the combined efficiency compare? No such comparison is made.

[rootusrootus]

> less flammable than today's lithium batteries

If we put aside the politics, what are the actual statistics behind lithium battery fires today? And don't LFP's have negligible fire risk?

I feel like my gasser F250 had a higher risk of spontaneously combusting.

[fatbird]

The problem isn't spontaneous combustion, it's having an accident where the battery is damaged, causing runaway combustion.

No one burned to death inside a Tesla while driving normally. It's always following a crash.

[gambiting]

Unlike in traditional vehicles, most EVs have such a robust firewall between the battery and the passenger compartments you literally have 1+ minute to get out, compared to often seconds in a traditional vehicle.

And I've been following Polish firefighters reports about EV fires and they are very interesting - basically saying that in all recent cases of EV fires they were contained so quickly even the interior was largely undamaged - something that practically never happens with regular cars. Some of these have been in underground garages too, with difficulty of access - but nowadays they just know how to approach an EV fire and containment isn't a problem.

[rootusrootus]

That's a new one. How common are fires after accidents, and what fraction of those burn the car up while someone is trapped inside? I know people occasionally die in regular gasoline vehicles in this exact situation, so is it statistically a higher risk in EVs?

[PunchyHamster]

I'd imagine if tesla stared to burn they wouldn't "drive normally"...

[cess11]

It makes this claim:

"The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km."

That would be some 720 km at -40 C if the numbers are correct. I'm not well versed in this area and not sure if these batteries are comparable to those in personal vehicles, but the ones I've heard owners talk about have a reach at about half that if it's cold at all.

[ninalanyon]

800 km from 253 kWh is 316 Wh/km somewhat worse than my ancient (2015) Tesla Model S. newer versions, models, and brands do better. So for most buyers this is not an improvement. Also performance at -40 C is irrelevant to the vast majority of drivers.

You are correct that range for many cars with Lithium (NMC) batteries is halved when the ambient temperature is below about -10 C. But an important caveat is that this applies principally to short trips where the battery never warms up such as driving 10 km into town and back to do some shopping. On long continuous journeys the decrease in range is much less marked.

[loeg]

> The Long-Range Version sets a new record for light commercial vehicles with a single-pack capacity of 253 kWh, achieving a maximum range of 800km.

This text is not present in the article. Are you looking at a different article?

[cess11]

No, I think they removed a paragraph.

[baq]

Even 620 would be absolutely not an issue, this is the difference I get from my diesel car basically

[throwaway894345]

> But the marketing hype is running miles ahead of reality.

The marketing hype is the true range monster