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by lbreakjai 129 days ago
$250k a year, for now. What's to stop anthropic for doubling the price if your entire business depends on it? What are you gonna do, close shops?
5 comments

Yeah this is just trading largely known & controllable labour management risks for some fun new unknown software ones.

You can negotiate with your human engineers for comp, you may not be able to negotaiate with as much power against Anthropic etc (or stop them if they start to change their services for the worse).

By then perhaps it will be possible to continue with local LLMs
Don't hold your breath. Hardware, memory, disks, have been stalling for a good while.
Stalling? Not at all, the prices have been rising :-/
If this is successful supply shock will kick in (because of energy/GPU constraints) and we could easily see a 2-4x price increase maybe more if the market will accept it. That's before taking into account current VC subsidies.
What’s to stop them? Competition.
From whom? OpenAI and Google? Who else has the sort of resources to train and run SOTA models at scale?

You just reduced the supply of engineers from millions to just three. If you think it was expensive before ...

> Who else has the sort of resources to train and run SOTA models at scale?

Google, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Amazon, Reka AI, Alibaba (Qwen), 01 AI, Cohere, DeepSeek, Nvidia, Mistral, NexusFlow, Z.ai (GLM), xAI, Ai2, Princeton, Tencent, MiniMax, Moonshot (Kimi) and I've certainly missed some.

All of those organizations have trained what I'd class as a GPT-4+ level model.

> Google, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Amazon, Reka AI, Alibaba (Qwen), 01 AI, Cohere, DeepSeek, Nvidia, Mistral, NexusFlow, Z.ai (GLM), xAI, Ai2, Princeton, Tencent, MiniMax, Moonshot (Kimi) and I've certainly missed some.

This is not a lot competition though. And you need to assume, that like other industries, mergers and acquisitions will happen over time which will put you in an increasingly worse position.

Kimi 2.5 is an opensource model with many providers https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k2.5/providers

Sure, opus and codex are significantly better. But price wise they cannot deviate too much from open models.

Especially if the open models are grounded against the digital twin.

Ah but I said "_... and running at scale_"
Of the list I gave you, at a guess:

Google, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Amazon, Alibaba (Qwen), Nvidia, Mistral, xAI - and likely more of the Chinese labs but I don't know much about their size.

I guess where I was leading to is who owns the compute that runs those models. Mistral, for example, lists Microsoft and Google as subprocessors (1). Anthropic is (was?) running on GCP and AWS.

So, we have multiple providers, but for how long? They're all competing for the same hardware and the same energy, and it will naturally converge into an oligopoly. So, if competition doesn't set the floor, what does?

Local models? If you're not running the best model as fast as you can, then you'll be outpaced by someone that does.

1. https://trust.mistral.ai/subprocessors

A tri-opoly can still provide competitive pressure. The Chinese models aren’t terrible either. Kimi K2.5 is pretty capable, although noticeably behind Claude Opus. But its existence still helps. The existence of a better product doesn’t require you to purchase it at any price.
> The existence of a better product doesn’t require you to purchase it at any price

It does if it means someone using a better model can outpace you. Not spending as much as you can means you don't have a business anymore.

It's all meaningless, ultimately. You're not building anything for anyone if no one has a job.

Your competitor developing software a little faster doesn't guarantee their success over you. It just skews the odds slightly in their favor.
because in all of this change we can’t be bothered to imagine a world where people have money without jobs? Do you think billionaires are just going to want to stop making more money?

The best bull case for us reaching luxury gay space communism is that people not working and having near infinite capital to buy whatever they want to enjoy is the only way the billionaires get to see their pot growing forever.

>because in all of this change we can’t be bothered to imagine a world where people have money without jobs?

We can imagine it all we want, and a free pony too. What we'll get is most of humanity not needed, and living in the edges of society, plus some 10-20 percent still "useful".

>The best bull case for us reaching luxury gay space communism is that people not working and having near infinite capital to buy whatever they want to enjoy is the only way the billionaires get to see their pot growing forever.

Billionaires are about power. The money was just a means for that, if they can get it in another way, they will use that. People "not working and having near infinite capital to buy whatever they want to enjoy" is the last thing they'll want.

Have they stopped making a loss yet? They'll all need to raise prices or they'll all go out of business, and now it's a game of chicken.
Competition doesn’t magically waive costs, the investors expectations of return, neither debt serving obligations.
And how has that worked out for us in any other software category?
I mean it's kind of hard to say because almost all software I use is free, a lot of it is FOSS. The software I bought outright in the last couple of years was well priced because of competition (ex: Affinity Designer 2 for $63 - the new version is free although I stick with v2).
that worked real well for cloud computing

aws and gcp's margins are legendarily poor

oh, wait

gcp was net negative until last year.

Big part of why clouds are expensive is not necessary hardware, but all software infra and complexity of all services.

Maybe not worth using then. Your product costs 5x and delivers 0.2x of competing product in the adjacent product class (traditional server/VPS), why use it?
those who don't need cloud services are feel free to use other options.
Which cloud services do you need?
All the big clouds are still in market share acquisition mode. Give it about 5 more years, when they're all in market consolidation and extraction mode.
cloud providers indeed could abuse vendor lock, but LLMs are not that easily vendor lockable.
Search engines were also not "easily vendor lockable".
I mean… What does your shop even do? Write software? Why? The whole premise is that it’s now easily cloned.