[SwiftyBug]

Singing is one of the few things that I suspect may not be just learned. Sure, you can improve a little, but not go from complete trash to someone you would actually tolerate hearing sing. I think our anatomies constrain us much more than for other things. How come some people can naturally sing and others produce a horrible screech? What I've been trying to find is a style that best suits my voice that will make it seem like I'm not horrible. Don't know what that is yet. Finding that is not so easy when you don't have a large vocal range nor a particularly interesting voice.

[ajb]

Some vocal techniques - like belting and the classical voices - require the actual development of musculature, both to hold a shape (for high pitches) and to be able to stabilise shapes. That's not going to happen overnight, so you have to spend sometime sounding horrible before you can do those well. That doesn't mean it's impossible - it's like lifting weights, anyone can improve it.

However, that's not the techniques used in the majority of popular singing. You absolutely can sound drastically different very quickly. This is simply because most people don't use most of the degrees of freedom that the voice has. If you look at the Estill method reference material, which concentrates on how the vocal system features actually operate to produce different vocal effects, they identify around 14 degrees of freedom.Some discrete, but a lot of them continuous. It is very common for someone who thinks that they have a terrible voice to take a few lessons and find that they can sound much better. It's just that, as another commenter pointed out, you can't see inside your own mouth and throat. You can't see that you're always holding them in a certain way.

For example, some women habitually sound shrill, usually because they have had to develop a penetrating voice. This is often true of teachers, who have to be able to make themselves heard over a bunch of shrill children (and aren't able to use the option of a deep bass). This is a vocal technique (twang) but it can also become habitual,to the point where they don't think they can do anything else.

[CGMthrowaway]

Love this comment. So many people think "this is my natural voice" but a skilled voice teacher will quickly disabuse one of that notion

[jesperordrup]

Thank you for you comment. I want to address that more clearly in some form.

[aljgz]

From your comment I don't know you have tried this or not, but get some sessions with the best trainer you can. Singing and even speaking with a good voice is incredibly counterintuitive for some people, speaking from experience. You might have everything needed for a great voice expect the skills, or you might be trying for a voice that's far from what works well for you.

[porridgeraisin]

Being able to sing on pitch is more music training than voice training. Music can be trained in any voice pretty much. As for vocal range - it is one of the easiest ones to improve! Simple daily drills can get you there. It's the same for simple voice quality things like learning to sing from your chest/diaphragm rather than just a head/nasal voice. As for having an "aesthetic voice", the steps needed is is extremely specific to each individual and each trainer. Both of you will "path" towards something that will be aesthetic for you and also achievable. Musicians e.g do this to adapt themselves to the "beloved" voice of their target industry. For an example, see https://www.google.com/search?q=arijit+singh+voice+transform... - the AI overview is a pretty decent summary with links to original source. Bollywood really likes love songs to be in husky male voices, so he adapted to that. You don't have to do all that of course, but a small % of similar work will get you to "aesthetic" territory.

Listening to lots of vocal music (preferably with very light accompaniment) also helps a looot. We are really good at imitation.

[apercu]

I was going to basically say the same thing. Few people can "sing" without spending time developing their ear.

[sublinear]

> How come some people can naturally sing and others produce a horrible screech?

From my own experience many of those "natural" singers simply grew up around music, so it can definitely be learned. Natural talent doesn't really go that far and it's just a small temporary boost that can just as easily be ruined by bad habits later in life. The same is true for other physical abilities.

Some of the best singers got their start on wind instruments. Music is all one big ecosystem of overlapping skills. Unless we're talking legendarily insanely great levels of singing, I don't think any musicians would agree singing is all that special.

In fact, if you isolate the vocals on many hit tracks you might be surprised and disappointed.

[porridgeraisin]

> grew up around music

Yep, and it's not just a childhood thing. At any age, simply listening to a lot of vocal music (with very light accompaniment) helps a ton in improving your singing (alongside other active work)

[vintermann]

We probably have some instinct for vocal imitation, to intuitively understand how the sound we hear is made - otherwise, it would be hard to learn to speak.

[dbalatero]

Why do people that don't know how to do a thing vibe out reasons that they'll never be able to do it? It's the hugest self-own. Also if you don't know how to do it, why would you assume it's based on some secret anatomical lottery. Could it just be you don't have access to the right information and direction for improvement at the moment?

[tomcam]

It can be taught!

I can play instruments but never thought I could sing outside a range of less than an octave in the baritone range.

When I was 50 we had a singing teacher over at our house for my children. I asked if she could help my range. That day she took my voice to a high C. I am actually a tenor and can sing pretty much all the high parts. I am my in-laws’ favorite opera singer now.

Also I was too timid. Singing is really just controlled shouting.

[kbrkbr]

I hear you. At 49 I also discovered an extra octave up there above the high e. Also baritone. The YouTube singiverse did it for me

[pards]

Got any youtubers you'd recommend?

[kbrkbr]

Bob Smeenk helped me personally a lot. But I guess it depends a lot on your background, experience and goals.

[tomcam]

How cool is that! Congratulations!

[danhau]

You can. That progression is normal. I know this because I am such a case. I wasn’t able to produce a single sound on pitch. Now I can nail some songs (as long as they don‘t go crazy on technique).

Learning to sing is taking control of your voice. You use the same biology that you have been using for speech and other vocal sounds since birth. It all comes built in. Of course it comes more naturally to some people, just like any other activity.

There are some decent videos on YouTube, but take actual vocal lessons if you can. Videos are not a substitute for lessons.

I don‘t like the posted page. The descriptions aren‘t very helpful and neither are most videos on YouTube. I know from experience. For a complete beginner, this is frankly a useless resource.

[lvp3]

Because it is so easy to get lost in the muck, do you have any particular recommendations on some “decent” YouTube videos/channels to get at least some practice before taking lessons with a vocal coach?

[danhau]

One I can remember from the top of my head is "How to ACTUALLY Use Breath Support". Seemed like a good, in-depth explanation of a fundamental topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC1iJfWA1aQ

The channel I've watched the most videos on is Chris Liepe's. The video "STOP Singing Vowels this way! (its making you tense)" was in my singing playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWimkesJDIc

I would still describe myself as a beginner, so please keep in mind that I can't possibly vouch for the quality or accuracy of any of these videos.

[danhau]

Oh and I forgot: I can play some instruments, but the voice is the cruelest one to learn. You can‘t „see“ what you are actually doing (wrong). And most of the time you can‘t even feel it very well. This why vocal training is full of analogies and imagery.

[stavros]

I wish it weren't. I would have gotten a lot more mileage out of "force a yawn, see what your mouth does, and do that" rather than "more space, more space, open up!".

[austinjp]

Have a look at Complete Vocal Technique.

https://completevocalinstitute.com/complete-vocal-technique/

Their work includes pedagogical research to develop a consistent terminology which abandons lots of outdated and confusing terms such as you mention. No more ambiguous words like "project" or "space" or "support".

Their research also includes using endosciopic cameras to directly observe the vocal tracts of professional singers.

I've not actually trained with them, I just like their research and approach.

[agos]

The ambiguous word “support” is listed on the page you linked as the first of their principles

[austinjp]

Very true, a bad choice on my part! Still, I stick by the spirit of my comment.

[stavros]

That looks really useful, thanks!

[jesperordrup]

I'm danish. CVI is the source of my inspiration

[stavros]

Seconding both points. I'm not one of those cases, as I could already sing decently, but I've seen people go from "terrible" to singing professionally.

I also agree that the linked page isn't useful, it's more of a glossary than anything, but then again, I'm not convinced that a distinction between head voice and chest voice actually exists. I've never been able to tell any qualitative difference, as opposed to, for example, falsetto, and the community can't really agree on whether they actually are a thing or not.

[aaarrm]

I see a lot of people in here posting success stories from lessons, which is great. But I tried lessons for about 2 months and go absolutely nowhere haha. It was just repeatedly practicing some song that I wasn't super into and I never even felt like I was "singing" just talking kind of louder / longer and felt very forced and odd. Terrible experience tbh, but I do love singing and still want to some day. (I generally just sing in falsetto to songs in my car because I'm too timid to really project my actual voice)

[pards]

It sounds like you didn't have a very good coach. My first coach wasn't very helpful, my second was amazing. Keep looking!

Open mic nights at your local bar are a great source of data. Approach people after their performance, compliment them, and ask them if they have a coach they'd be willing recommend.

[CuriouslyC]

Try recording yourself as you do karaoke. The external perspective and hearing it "in the mix" really helps you tune your performance.

[pards]

Ed Sheeran used to be bad at singing [0]. So was Jon Bon Jovi.

In-person vocal lessons and consistent practice have dramatically improved my voice from terrible to half-decent.

[0]: https://youtube.com/shorts/I05Ahr0tpAc

[mrjay42]

As with many things in life, see it like stats in an RPG: your 'character' may have "0" in the singing skill INITIALLY. But it's still a skill that you can learn, even if you start low.

However, what is true is that, you will sound like YOU. You can get close or make impressions of artists you like. But ultimately your voice is YOUR instrument and it can gain range, and power, but you'll sound like you.

For instance, I'm well aware that I will never have "Celine Dion's voice". I don't mean her skills, I mean literally her voice.

That's what one of the first AND biggest tough thing to accept when singing: you might never sound exactly like the singers you admire. But it doesn't mean you can't sing or be extremely good at it.

It's like Michael Jackson was sad because he knew he would never be able to sing like Barry White. Does that mean Michael Jackson is not a good singer? Nope.

[CuriouslyC]

Genetics limits your potential and influences your timbre, but pretty much anyone can learn any technique, and I'll go out on a limb and say anyone can learn to sound really good.

[vintermann]

Yes, tone deafness is more likely to be a problem than physical limits, at least if the goal is merely to sing well with the range you have.

[cyco130]

Anecdotal evidence from my own singing at 20 compared to 40 seems to point to the opposite.

[TurdF3rguson]

There is such a thing as being tone deaf. It's hard to get good if you can't even tell if you're bad, and I've been to enough karaoke nights to know that most people can't tell how bad they sound.

[zug_zug]

Yeah I took over a year of singing lessons from a vocal coach and saw minimal improvement.

That’s fine, but it annoys me when people lie about this stuff. I don’t say everyone can program, and that’s okay. Nobody can say “everybody can X” because nobody has met every person.

[80hd]

I mostly agree, almost everything is possible for almost everyone, but some people have hurdles to overcome that would probably take their entire life to overcome.

Having said that, some people choose that path anyway, and sometimes they actually end up mastering the field from the bottom up in a completely new way that no one else would ever think to do.

I say this on the off-chance someone reading this is one of those people. But yeah, I'm not gonna try grow from 5'7 to 6'4 or sprint faster than Usain Bolt. But more power to anyone who tries!