[ChicagoDave]

Fog, heavy rain, heavy snow, people running between cars or from an obstructed view…

None of these technologies can ever be 100%, so we’re basically accepting a level of needless death.

Musk has even shrugged off FSD related deaths as, “progress”.

[smallmancontrov]

Humans: 70 deaths in 7 billion miles

FSD: 2 deaths in 7 billion miles

Looks like FSD saves lives by a margin so fat it can probably survive most statistical games.

[socialcommenter]

How many of the 70 human accidents would be adequately explained by controlling for speed, alcohol, wanton inattention, etc? (The first two alone reduce it by 70%)

No customer would turn on FSD on an icy road, or on country lanes in the UK which are one lane but run in both directions; it's much harder to have a passenger fatality in stop-start traffic jams in downtown US cities.

Even if those numbers are genuine (2 vs 70) I wouldn't consider it apples-for-apples.

Public information campaigns and proper policing have a role to play in car safety, if that's the stated goal we don't necessarily need to sink billions into researching self driving

[hn_acc1]

Is that the official Tesla stat? I've heard of way more Tesla fatalities than that..

[simondotau]

There are a sizeable number of deaths associated with the abuse of Tesla’s adaptive cruise control with lane cantering (publicly marketed as “autopilot”). Such features are commonplace on many new cars and it is unclear whether Tesla is an outlier, because no one is interested in obsessively researching cruise control abuse among other brands.

There are two deaths associated with FSD.

[ChicagoDave]

This is absolutely a Musk defender. FSD and Tesla related deaths are much higher.

https://www.tesladeaths.com/index-amp.html

[smallmancontrov]

Autopilot is the shitty lane assist. FSD is the SOTA neural net.

Your link agrees with me:

> 2 fatalities involving the use of FSD

[ChicagoDave]

Tesla sales are dead across the world. Cybertruck is a failure. Chinese EVs are demonstrably better.

No one wants these crappy cars anymore.

[Fricken]

I don't know what he's on about. Here's a better list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashe...

[dham]

Good ole Autopilot vs FSD post. You would think people on Hacker News would be better informed. Autopilot is just lane keep and adaptive cruise control. Basically what every other car has at this point.

"MacOS Tahoe has these cool features". "Yea but what about this wikipedia article on System 1. Look it has these issues."

That's how you come across

[smallmancontrov]

Autopilot is the shitty lane assist. FSD is the SOTA neural net.

Your link agrees with me:

> two that NHTSA's Office of Defect Investigations determined as happening during the engagement of Full Self-Driving (FSD) after 2022.

[elgenie]

Isn't there a great deal of gaming going on with the car disengaging FSD milliseconds before crashing? Voila, no "full" "self" driving accident; just another human failing [*]!

[*] Failing to solve the impossible situation FSD dropped them into, that is.

[smallmancontrov]

Nope. NHTSA's criteria for reporting is active-within-30-seconds.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-orde...

If there's gamesmanship going on, I'd expect the antifan site linked below to have different numbers, but it agrees with the 2 deaths figure for FSD.