[nosianu]

Those using memes along the lines of "nobody is illegal" (sometimes "on stolen land" is added)? This is a movement not limited to the US. Here in Europe there is a similar movement, using that same slogan. They don't want any borders or border enforcement at all.

Merely for illustration, a single example: https://abc7.com/post/protests-expected-socal-part-nationwid...

> Protesters were seen carrying flags, signs and spraying graffiti on nearby property, including on the U.S. Courthouse sign where it read "No one is illegal on stolen land".

[torben-friis]

>"nobody is illegal"

This is completely orthogonal to the conversation, but I think you misunderstood that slogan. It does not mean “immigration rules must not be enforced”.

It means differentiating between a potentially illegal action (illegal entry/overstaying) and the person itself. You never talk about an illegal driver, or an illegal drinker, but people talk about illegal immigrants, with the implication that the person itself is illegal.

It’s subtle but it’s a step towards dehumanizing a person, or making infractions to their rights “count less” in the public eye.

[AlecSchueler]

> but people talk about illegal immigrants

Worse than that, we more and more often just see the term "illegals" being used, which completely removes the person from the description.

[AlecSchueler]

The protest you linked wasn't calling for completely open borders. That's also not policy of either of the main parties in the US, as was implied above. I understand "no one is illegal" to be a counter to the use of language like "illegals" to describe the humans involved.

[xp84]

I get that you can make the argument that they're merely making a semantic point. However, if that side of the debate actually agreed with us that these people shouldn't even be here at all, what difference does it make what we call them? If the side who wants them gone had their way, they'd be gone back home and they'd no longer be in any illegal status in any sense of the word.

It only matters what we call them, if you want to keep them here forever. I think the present-day recommended term is probably just "immigrant" right? So basically we should call them the same thing we call the people who waited years for their turn and proved that they had a positive contribution to make to our society.

[NoGravitas]

The term for immigrants without papers is "undocumented immigrant". The largest group of undocumented immigrants are people who entered the country legally, and then overstayed their visas or otherwise violated their terms (usually by working on a tourist or student visa). This is a civil offense.

[AlecSchueler]

> It only matters what we call them, if you want to keep them here forever.

You think it makes no difference if we call them "the scum of the earth" or "below human entities" otherwise? Surely there's a line of what rhetoric you would tolerate. This is ours.

[nosianu]

Why do you choose that single example, which I said was just that, and pretend my whole statement hinges on it?

You are either misinformed, willfully ignorant or lying, and I've had it with this discussion style.

Yes, people who use "no one is illegal" do also say "no more borders". Not every single one, clearly humans are diverse, but your statement is just false.

Here a UK example even combining the statements (as I said, the movement is not limited to the US). https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.11073215

Another example, also showing this is an older movement (2005): https://www.statewatch.org/media/documents/news/2005/apr/int... ("No Borders/No One Is Illegal campaigns")

[AlecSchueler]

> Why do you choose that single example, which I said was just that

Because we're looking for people saying borders should be completely opened. An example of people saying something else is irrelevant.

> Yes, people who use "no one is illegal" do also say "no more borders".

Ok but the conversation is about people saying the latter. It was you who brought the former into the conversation.

> Here a UK example

Which British parties are active in the United States?

> Another example, also showing this is an older movement

The claim was that "the left" has no response to emigration issues beyond "open all borders" and that this was the policy of "one party." The existence of an anti-borders movement is again irrelevant to the questions I raised in response to this assertion.

[giaour]

Just because some people who say "no one is illegal" also say "no more borders," that does not automatically mean that the former implies the latter. If that were the case, we could paint everyone who agrees with Nick Fuentes on any point (including, in the extreme, "nice weather we're having today") as a antisemite. The old joke linking dietary choices to Nazism ("You know who else was a vegetarian? Hitler!") is meant to make light of this logical fallacy.

The grandparent post accurately captured what I have understood people to mean by "no one is illegal" -- it is meant to protest a dehumanizing way to describe a class of people.

[cassepipe]

Yes some leftists and anarchiste do. Do you really believe the Democrats support that motto ?

Don't you guys remind us about Obama being "the deporter in chief" every time you are given the occasion ?