[throwway120385]

> I think this new version is the latter case, a bad rehearsal used as a veil of the ascent of fascism in the States.

I've found over time that one man's utopia is another's hellish nightmare. This is true of every utopia and should be a pretty strong argument against implementing them at all.

[direwolf20]

I see this in some cities. They are very clean looking, no litter, no graffiti, very shiny windows. Then you think about how the people must be treated to make this be true.

[mullingitover]

> Then you think about how the people must be treated to make this be true.

People who have all their needs met (food and safety, social, etc) tend to want to make the world around them better. I would wager the nice looking places are more likely to have well-treated people.

Places that look like dumps are the ones more likely to be populated by people who are treated poorly.

[direwolf20]

unrealistic expectation. The city is hyper–clean because anyone who litters is shot.

[throwway120385]

Or because people in the community have pride in the community. One of the differences I've noticed between Hawaii and Tahiti is in how dirty and messed up the buildings and streets are. In Hawaii there's more of a "community spirit" that tends to encourage cleanliness. I felt more despair from Tahiti.

[direwolf20]

Community spirit is cleanliness but also freedom. In a community spirit place you get no litter but you also get lots of artsy decorations and weird spaces. In a conformist place you get no litter and whatever type of building billionaires make money from.

[anigbrowl]

Can you be more specific? I guess you're talking about some place like one of the central Asian republics?

[um1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

TLDR; they built a mouse utopia universe 25 with plenty of food water and space . Eventually some grew violent, others sat and groomed themselves all day, they stopped breeding and died out.

[MattGrommes]

The origins of the word utopia are exactly that idea. The original books about utopias almost all showed the negative heart at the center of the idea.